What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?

[Cephid Arcanis]

yeah, any speciality that takes up all your resources and yet is completely negated by a lvl2 slot needs help.  ofc, grappling is just as bad, what with freedom of movement.  well, at least archers can get a force bow to overcome wind wall.... I think.

But with my Kensai Archer(here http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5748.0) with an Elvencraft Greatbow you are not just an archer. Those same resources apply to my staff and if I give it aptitude on it, so do all my archery feats.

[pithica]

That was me. So if did, how would I work out the grapple modifier?
Snip...Questions

The answer to all of the questions about the modifier is that they are keyed to the caster of the spell, and not the archer shooting the arrows (if he isn't the one casting).

And the cost for a spell storing arrow is only 160gp, not 400.

How are you getting that math? Spellstoring Arrows are automatically +2, which is 8,000gp, plus the cost of 50 masterwork arrows (302.5gp). 8,302.5/50=166.05...

Wait...what the hell did I divide by that came out to 400? I must be smoking crack today. Sorry for the misinformation.

I do stand by my point, though. If the average fight is 3 rounds, and you're dropping 6 arrows/round, that's 2988.9gp per fight. It's not as bad as I initially thought, since average treasure for a 20th level encounter is 80,000gp (or 20,000gp/person in group of 4), it's only about 15% of your share. It's probably less severe than a wand-happy caster or a potion using fighter, or whatever, though, so maybe it's not so big a deal.

Spells can be cast in down time=free.

If my spellcaster get's downtime and he's got extra spell slots, he's spending them casting things like Fabricate to make money. But, even so, he's keeping up all his defensive/attack spells he usually keeps up, cause I'm paranoid like that. (Or am I the only one that has a DM that will throw 'surprises' at you like that?)

Also, as far as (over)powerfulness goes, compair it to a bane arrow (same cost)
+2 to hit and +9 damage is awesome. Most damageing spells in a spell storing arrow won't be that good.
The utility would be nice thou with Earthbind and Kelp strand etc.

Something that grappled, stunned, entangled, fatigued, exhausted, drained, or hit some other aspect of the character could be much much much worse than the +9 damage would ever be. You successfully nauseate a spellcaster, and he's out of the fight. You successfully fatigue or entangle a charger, and he's doing 1/10th the damage he would otherwise. You hit someone's low attribute with enough to drop them to 0, and they go helpless.

Besides, a gish or spellcaster in the group is going to have the caster level to put much more than 2d6 damage dice in that arrow. A bunch of 1sts and 2nds do 5d6, and several 3rds go as high as 10d6.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I typically use spellstoring arrows as magical hypodermics with an assortment of condition effecting spells (lesser restoration is a good choice), with a couple of utility spells like Crystalline Memories and Tongues

[Cephid Arcanis]

"Something that grappled, stunned, entangled, fatigued, exhausted, drained, or hit some other aspect of the character could be much much much worse than the +9 damage would ever be. You successfully nauseate a spellcaster, and he's out of the fight. You successfully fatigue or entangle a charger, and he's doing 1/10th the damage he would otherwise. You hit someone's low attribute with enough to drop them to 0, and they go helpless."

So do you think Spell storing arrows are Overpowered then, or just a good option?

And isn't the CL and DC the minimum needed to cast the spell?

[Ribusprissin]

Protection from Energy.

[Cephid Arcanis]

Protection from Energy.

um...

...what about it?

[ksbsnowowl]

Protection from Energy.

um...

...what about it?

It's a good buff spell to put in an arrow.  Lay the spell on your friend from across the battlefield.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Or just distribute it ahead of time.  Dispel magic is also a good choice.

[Amadi]

"Also, as far as (over)powerfulness goes, compair it to a bane arrow (same cost)
+2 to hit and +9 damage is awesome. Most damageing spells in a spell storing arrow won't be that good.
The utility would be nice thou with Earthbind and Kelp strand etc."

A: Bane arrow only works against certain targets.
B: Spellstoring arrow works against all targets.
C: The CL isn't capped at minimum, unless your DM has houseruled that it is. We are going to assume that this is the case, because without doing it there isn't any argument here to begin with.

Seeking Ray, ~14 damage, +4 to hit with rays for a short duration.
Vampiric Touch, ~10.5 damage, heal the same amount.
Inflict Serious Wounds, ~18.5 damage.

[Negative Zero]

Dehydrate(SC) is a weird alternative to Poison, but it works on things immune to poison. 1d6 + 1per3 caster levels of con damage (max +5), instead of 1d10. Fort negates on each, except Poison scales with CL instead of spell level. Infestation of Maggots (SC) has the potential to do more con damage than either of those two, but if the guy you're fighting fails that many fort saves in a row, he isn't really a threat.
Hypothermia (SC) is a fairly standard blast, but the fatigue on a failed Fort save is a nice addition.

All are level 3 Druid spells.

[cru]

I still think RAW is clear But let me just hide my argumentation inside a spoiler box.

[spoiler]DMG and SRD have two tables listing weapon properties, melee and ranged. Yes, the table is ALSO used for random generation. But it is generally an overview of melee and ranged weapon properties.

"It doesn't say you can't" is pretty weak. Say hello to dancing bows.

Anyway, Magic Item Compendium has a melee weapon properties table and a ranged weapon properties. This table is not usable for random generation, but rather, it lists all applicable properties. Again, spell storing is not on the ranged list.[/spoiler]

[JaronK]

Text trumps table.  The table leaves spell storing items out of the ranged section, but the text allows them... thus, the text wins.  Of course, since the table is only of random generation, and is not an all inclusive list of all possible allowed weapons, there's not even a contradiction anyway.  So yes, by RAW, spell storing arrows are legal.

JaronK

[telehax]

Venomfire. You fire it at a poisonous snake and it becomes twice to three times as deadly.

[woodenbandman]

Has anyone noticed that Power Storing and Spell Storing allow you to store personal range spells in them? It says "A single targeted spell" and last time I checked Personal effects weren't AoE, they were targeted.

[pithica]

So do you think Spell storing arrows are Overpowered then, or just a good option?

Potentially overpowered. If you have an artificer and a gish archer, it could get pretty gross. Otherwise, I feel the costs generally at least even out to the power granted, as long as you aren't allowing already broken spells, (like Shivering Touch) to be used.

And isn't the CL and DC the minimum needed to cast the spell?

Where did you see that? I've never read that before. (Not saying you're wrong, but I'm just not seeing it.)

I do see a little clause to that affect in a ring of spell storing, but nowhere associated with the weapon property.

[pithica]

Seeking Ray, ~14 damage, +4 to hit with rays for a short duration.

I don't have Spell Compendium up to check in this specific case, but just to be clear, Ray's generally do not have a 'Target' entry, they have an 'Effect' entry. So, despite all logic to the contrary, they are not targeted spells, and can't normally be put into spellstoring weapons.

Counterargument to cru in Spoilers...

[spoiler]

DMG and SRD have two tables listing weapon properties, melee and ranged. Yes, the table is ALSO used for random generation. But it is generally an overview of melee and ranged weapon properties.

"It doesn't say you can't" is pretty weak. Say hello to dancing bows.

Anyway, Magic Item Compendium has a melee weapon properties table and a ranged weapon properties. This table is not usable for random generation, but rather, it lists all applicable properties. Again, spell storing is not on the ranged list.

1. As JaronK pointed out. Text trumps table. Lot's of things are missing/wrong in a lot of tables, or do Vigilante's really get 33 3rd level spell-slots a day? That's why every erratta begins with the paragraph, "in any place where the Text and the Table disagree, the text trumps the table."
2. If it were as simple as, 'it's not on the chart', why would the Seeking property, which is only on the Ranged chart, bother with the text, "Only ranged weapons can have the seeking ability." If it worked as you describe (table trumps text), that text would be redundant. For that matter, why bother with the text at all in all the other properties that have similar limitations?
3. As I already pointed out, a Arrow can be used as a melee weapon, it says so right in the first line of it's description. I am not going back and re-linking it.

This argument isn't simply, "it doesn't say I can't", the argument is, "in every other situation where I can't, it explicitly says so in the description, am I supposed to believe that the writers were so lazy/incompentent that they couldn't type, "Only melee weapons can have the spellstoring ability," in this one case that lacks it?"
[/spoiler]

[The_Mad_Linguist]

"It doesn't say you can't" is pretty weak.

Where in the rules does it say you can cast spells on Sunday?

[SorO_Lost]

Right next to the rules on sneaking around in a cardboard box.

[Sinfire Titan]

So do you think Spell storing arrows are Overpowered then, or just a good option?

And isn't the CL and DC the minimum needed to cast the spell?

RAW, that only applies to magic items. Spellstoring is a separate story. The DC of a spell in a spellstoring weapon doesn't change, so the DC and CL are caster-dependent.

Also, there's a really useful button in each post called "Quote". Please start using it instead of the "". It may be proper English in literature, but in the forums the Quote tags replace it.  We even have a mutiquote option built into the forums. When posting your reply, just scroll down to the post you want to reply to and hit the "Quote Post" button that appears.

If you need help with this stuff, just ask someone.

[Cephid Arcanis]

So do you think Spell storing arrows are Overpowered then, or just a good option?

And isn't the CL and DC the minimum needed to cast the spell?

RAW, that only applies to magic items. Spellstoring is a separate story. The DC of a spell in a spellstoring weapon doesn't change, so the DC and CL are caster-dependent.

Also, there's a really useful button in each post called "Quote". Please start using it instead of the "".

Deal, none of these: ""

I agree with the logic of allowing Spell storing on arrows.

Ok, so if CL and DC are based on caster, here is an idea based on mid level play:
Kelp strand in arrow of Spell storing:
Druid 10 + Ank of ... + Prayer beads of karma + Talisman of the 12 moons=CL20
Wisdom base+enhancement+owles wisdom=34 (+12)
Grapple bonuses from items &/or feats: +4

Total grapple check: +36 (no save, no SR, and they have to beat 6 of them or be grappled for 20 rounds!)
Sick combow or what?!?!

Maybe this is a reason to limit CL and DC to min needed.