Help with a Swordsage/Warblade!!

[SwordDisciple]

I've never played using the TOB before.. Yes horrible and behind the times I know!!!   However I am getting the chance to play using it this weekend and am having issues deciding what Stances/Maneuvers I want to know..

Can someone... Anyone... Give me a quick efficient build for a 5th level Warrior from the TOB??

It will be the Eberron Campaign Setting and the character has been requested to be a Melee/Scout for the party. I'm thinking of using either a Human or a Changeling...

I'm thinking a mix of both Swordsage and Warblade would be best but I want to know how to optimize this combo

I rolled the following Stats which can be used in any order 14, 18, 13, 18, 15, 13

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to help!!!

[SorO_Lost]

Why Swordsage/Warblade? Are you just wanting a large number of maneuvers known? Swordsage > Warblade or Warblade > Swordsage? Also, what kind of focus do you want?

Human Warblade 5
Str 18, Con 18, Dex 13, Int 15, Wis 14, Cha 13.
Maneuvers:
1st - Sudden Leap(tiger), Wolf Fang Strike(tiger, retrained out), Steel Wind(iron), Moment of Perfect Mind(diamond).
2nd - Emerald Razor(diamond), Action Before Thought(diamond).
3rd - Bone Crusher(stone).
Stances - Punishing Stance, Any.
I suppose is a simple enough warblade build, you're lead ins will be Bone Crusher while in Punishing Stance for +5d6 damage and next round Steel Wind them for two attacks each with +1d6 damage attached. If you cannot hit a foe use Emerald Razor. There is no SS level here because the 5th level of Warblade nets a bonus feat and 3rd level maneuvers known(bone crusher in this case). I'd remain in Warblade until the 7th level then you'll pick up int to damage while flanking and 4th level maneuvers, then dip into SS for two levels for Wis to AC and aim for Master of Nine later on. MoN is pretty feat extensive though, but worth it.

While using MoN abuse the PHBII's retrain rules during your downtime and keep MoN as the last levels you have taken, that way you'll know the best maneuvers.

[SwordDisciple]

Why Swordsage/Warblade? Are you just wanting a large number of maneuvers known? Swordsage > Warblade or Warblade > Swordsage? Also, what kind of focus do you want?

First of all, thanks for your reply

Both due to thinking the Swordsage would be a better scout and the Warblade to pack a bit more punch.. I was thinking more maneuvers would give more versatility?

Focuswise I'm not too sure, hence the plea for help

[Redeemer of Ogar]

Not really fully optimized but lots of fun, I had a Goliath who went Barbarian 2/Warblade 2/Swordsage 2 and then into Bloodstorm Blade. From Warblade I mainly used Steely Strike and Bonecrusher - though I got good use out of Steel Wind early on. From Swordsage I mostly used Mountain Hammer (blows through DR) and Rabid Wolf Strike for damage, and Shadow Jaunt and Sudden Leap for tactical movement (his jump check was around +20 and goliaths always make their jump check as though they had a running start). My stance waffled between Punishing Stance and Stance of Clarity.  I will say this, if you pick up sword sage it will be worth your while to take the Adaptive Style feat (full round action to recover your maneuvers).  I was also deliberately avoiding most of the unusual effects, as I was running with a fairly unoptimized party.

[SorO_Lost]

I had a Human Warblade 13 / Crusader 1 / Swordsage 1 / Master Of Nine I used.
It didn't even use weapons either, instead I just picked up Superior Unarmed Strike, Snap Kick, and Necklace of Natural Weapons. The three bonus feats from the Warblade levels helped out.

I don't recall the maneuver list, but thanks to Crusader's granted maneuvers it could meet the requirements on the MoN side for Strike Of Righteous Vitality so potentially it could cast Heal on it's self every other round to recover and with Immortal Fortitude it meant damage wise nothing in the MMs could beat it down. As well as Tiger, Stone, & Diamond's 9th level maneuvers with the support of Shadow Blink and Raging Mongoose to just hammer the heck out of people.

Just remember if you do go MoN pick up a strike from each school, that way you'll get a +9 damage bonus and at least one of those strikes needs to bypass DR. Beyond that, I'm not sure on other advice until you pick some kind of focus. Like TWF (grab assassin's stance, craven, SA boosters), crits (blood to water, keen <blank> weapon), semi-infinite damage (stance of chaos + small die), ubercharger (barbarian level, shadow teleport + battle jump + charge stuff), lockdown (thicket of blades + spiked chain + 3 feats or so), tag (stormguard warrior + lots of attacks). And a decently built MoN can reach into a couple of those roles. SA and tag use a total of 6 feats and MoN wants 5 so thats all your feats as a human and you still have two flaws of space so you can take Battle Jump, Power Attack, and use a Valorous Martial Discipline weapon. It won't be as great at charging as say a barbarian/frenzy charger, but it's far from a one trick pony.

[SwordDisciple]

This is awesome guys, thanks alot! Ideas are what I needed and you're giving me plenty

[KellKheraptis]

If you like SorO's idea above, there's a build in the ToB guide in the guide section for building Reshar.  As in, all 9 9th level maneuvers (and the only other way I know of to do that is playing either an erudite or a thrallherd/leadership whore with an erudite).

[TT30]

This is small stealthy build which can fight too.

Whisper Gnome (races of stone page 94)
Swordsage5

Str:14-2race
Dex:18+2race
Con:15+2race+1lvl
Int:13
Wis:18
Cha:13-2race

Feats:
Lvl1:Shadow Blade
Lvl3:Weapon Finesse
Lvl6:Two Weapon Fighting

Manouvers:
Lvl1:
Distracting Ember
Saphire Nightmare Blade
Counter Charge
Wolf Fang Strike
Sudden Leap
Wind Stride
xxxxx replaced with lvl2manouver at lvl4

Lvl2:
Fire Riposte
Shadow Jaunt
Cloak Of Deception

Lvl3:
Fan The Flames

Stances:
Lvl1:
Child Of Shadow
Hunters Sense
Lvl3:
Assasins Stance


AC:10+5dex+4wis+1size+4mirhril shirt=24, touch:20

Attack:3bab+5dex+1size+1masterworked weapons+1disciple focus-2two weapon fighting->+9/+9
Dam:d4+1str(primary hand)+5dex+2d6assasins stance
easy to get sneak attacks with cloak of deception and distracting ember, after that tumbe to flank position and use wolf fang strike to attack with both weapons.

Equipment:Mithrill Shirt, 2*Small Masterworked Short Sword

Hide check:8ranks+5dex+4size+4racial=+21
Move silently:8ranks+5dex+4racial=+17
If spotted while sneaking cloack of deception helps to hide again.

Tumbe check:8ranks+5dex+2synergy from jump=15=flanking is really easy

[SwordDisciple]

If you like SorO's idea above, there's a build in the ToB guide in the guide section for building Reshar.  As in, all 9 9th level maneuvers (and the only other way I know of to do that is playing either an erudite or a thrallherd/leadership whore with an erudite).

Thanks Kell, the link is broken, would you happen to know what this was?

Edit: don't worry, saw it further down

[Anklebite]

[spoiler]
swordsage1      +2 tiger claw, +2 diamond mind, +2 desert wind
swordsage2      +1 shadow hand
swordsage3      +1 shadow hand
swordsage4      +1 stone dragon
crusader1         +2 white raven, +2 devoted spirit, +1 stone dragon
warblade1        +2 iron heart, +1 white raven
swordsage5      +1 tiger claw
swordsage6      +1 tiger claw
swordsage7      +1 tiger claw, martial study(feral death blow)
swordsage8      +1 shadow hand
swordsage9      +1 shadow hand
swordsage10     +1 shadow hand, martial study(five shadow creeping ice enervation strike)
swordsage11     +1 desert wind
swordsage12     +1 desert wind
swordsage13     +1 desert wind, martial study(inferno blast)
masterofnine1   +2 white raven
masterofnine2   +war masters charge
masterofnine3   +1 setting sun, +3 devoted spirit(from ToB items), 9th level devoted spirit strike(whatever the name was)
masterofnine4   +4 setting sun(from items), tornado throw
masterofnine5   +3 iron heart(from items), +3 diamond mind(from items), + strike of perfect clairity, +time stands still

maneuvers can be re-arranged as desired, and it is highly recommended to do so.  I only listed them in that order for simplicity.
[/spoiler]

not too hard to do pre-epic, just requires pre-req cheesing.  however, all signs point to reshar being epic anyways. he is probably a crusader10/warblade10/swordsage10/masterofnine5 or something like that (you HAVE seen how WotC builds epic characters, right? this one is slightly more optimized than normal for them!).

[SwordDisciple]

Well I've come up with this to go with the flavour of the build and I'm curious as to if I am right with the rules?

Swordsage Initiator Level (4+0.5): 4
Warblade Initiator Level (1 +2): 3

Giving:
Swordsage: 7 1st Level Maneuvers, 2 2nd level Maneuvers, 2 stances known
Warblade: 3 Maneuvers and 1 Stance, which can be 2nd level


So my build goes (maneuvers/Stances)

1 Swordsage 6/1: Burning Blade, Wind Stride, Mighty Throw, Clinging Shadow Strike, Shadow Blade Technique, Sudden Leap / Child of Shadow
2 Swordsage 1/1: Shadow Blade Technique / Hunters Sense
3 Swordsage 1/0: Cloak of Deception
4 Swordsage 1/0: Shadow Jaunt, Retrain Burning Blade to Sapphire Nightmare Blade
5 Warblade 3/1: Emerald Razor, Steel Wind, Wall of Blades / Punishing Stance

Am I right or wrong?

Thanks guys