Author Topic: Arcane Heirophant  (Read 6663 times)

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QOShea

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2009, 02:37:44 PM »
Equiptment:
Elven Darkleaf Full Plate +1 (Wild; Improved Agility)   
   AC Bonus +9; Max Dex +2; Armor Check Penalty -4; +3 Reflex   
   
Darkwood Shield +1 (Wild)   
   AC Bonus +3   
Scimitar +2 (Shocking)   
   
Magic Bedroll   
Everlasting Rations   
Ring of Arming   
Wand of Cure Light Wounds   
Eternal Wand (Speak with Plants)   
Crystal Mask of Languages   
Bracers of Lightning (work in wild shape)   
Periapt of Wisdom +6   
Hewards Handy Haversack   
   
Healing Belt   
Wilding Clasp   
   
Collar of Healing   
Studded Leather Barding +2   
Crystal of Arrow Deflection (Lesser)

pithica

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2009, 03:15:08 PM »
Get Animated Shield, it's only +2 and works in wildshape.

What's your Dex..14?

I believe (but I can't seem to find the costs for Darkleaf to confirm) you'll get more AC overall cheaper by going with a Wildwood Breastplate, or Sharkskin Armor (if you want to avoid ACP). You could also save yourself some money and go with Greater Mage Armor as a Sorcerer spell, which can potentially last all day fairly easily by your level (though you may need a lesser extend rod), but that'll cost you a little AC. If your Kercpa pal has Persist, you could also get him to persist Shield for you to save even more money.

Speak with Plants can't be an Eternal Wand, normally. The EW is limited to Arcane Spells of 3rd level or less, and SwP is only Bard 4 on the Arcane side.

A Wand of Lesser Vigor is more cost effective for OOC healing. (750gp for 550 points of healing (LV) vs 275 points of healing average (CLW)).

Nice call on the Crystal Mask...if you can get away with that, that's a very cheap way to get around the one (minimal) weakness of being a druid. I'm making note of that, as I never noticed the actual text of that item before (I thought it just effectively added to 'languages known', I didn't realize it specified 'grants ability to speak...'). 

I'd dump the magic weapon. With Wild-shape, summons, an Animal Companion, AND a spellcaster cohort, in a group, you're only going to use it when you want to prove a point, so there's no point blowing a bunch of money on it.

Other than that, it's a fairly solid item list. I would recommend picking up extend rods, if you can, to get to the point where you can easily keep up a list of 1hr/lvl spells all day. You can also use an extend rod and a single 6th level spell slot to be immune to 2 energy types all the time, which is pretty dang potent.

QOShea

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2009, 03:40:18 PM »
Get Animated Shield, it's only +2 and works in wildshape.

Good idea, I didn't think of that.

Quote
What's your Dex..14?
I believe (but I can't seem to find the costs for Darkleaf to confirm) you'll get more AC overall cheaper by going with a Wildwood Breastplate, or Sharkskin Armor (if you want to avoid ACP). You could also save yourself some money and go with Greater Mage Armor as a Sorcerer spell, which can potentially last all day fairly easily by your level (though you may need a lesser extend rod), but that'll cost you a little AC. If your Kercpa pal has Persist, you could also get him to persist Shield for you to save even more money.

The Darkleaf platemail is cause it's cool *grin* and due to getting the +9 bonus total.

It cost 25,000gp and  .... I don't have the book handy. Crud. Another thing to check when I get home LOL.

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Speak with Plants can't be an Eternal Wand, normally. The EW is limited to Arcane Spells of 3rd level or less, and SwP is only Bard 4 on the Arcane side.

Blah, misread the level for the Bard version. You see what you want to see, I guess.

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A Wand of Lesser Vigor is more cost effective for OOC healing. (750gp for 550 points of healing (LV) vs 275 points of healing average (CLW)).

This group usually needs healing IN battle, sadly. But with some of the other equipment gone, I can afford one. And maybe a Belt of Giant Strength +2 for my Grizzly bear travelling buddy.

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Nice call on the Crystal Mask...if you can get away with that, that's a very cheap way to get around the one (minimal) weakness of being a druid. I'm making note of that, as I never noticed the actual text of that item before (I thought it just effectively added to 'languages known', I didn't realize it specified 'grants ability to speak...'). 

Thanks, I'm hoping that he will let me use it that way LOL. That's what the Wilding Clasp is for.

First person who says my animal companion should be a bear cub named Boo-Boo is gonna get mauled though.

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I'd dump the magic weapon. With Wild-shape, summons, an Animal Companion, AND a spellcaster cohort, in a group, you're only going to use it when you want to prove a point, so there's no point blowing a bunch of money on it.

True. I'm going to Greater Magic Fang readied a lot as it is.

Quote
Other than that, it's a fairly solid item list. I would recommend picking up extend rods, if you can, to get to the point where you can easily keep up a list of 1hr/lvl spells all day. You can also use an extend rod and a single 6th level spell slot to be immune to 2 energy types all the time, which is pretty dang potent.

Thanks for the tips. I appreciate it.

wotmaniac

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2009, 04:02:31 PM »
Edited original post for current build.

Actually, that would be a Greenbound Elephant from Summon Nature's Ally VI.
you got it backwards.   druid 3/ sorc 4 ; otherwise you won't meet the casting requirements.

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QOShea

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2009, 04:06:22 PM »
 :banghead I hate it when I do that!

pithica

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2009, 04:11:21 PM »
Quote
The Darkleaf platemail is cause it's cool *grin* and due to getting the +9 bonus total.

It cost 25,000gp and  .... I don't have the book handy. Crud. Another thing to check when I get home LOL.

Just doing the math out...not sure if I'm right. Do you mean it's 25kgp with Wild and Agility? or 25kgp BEFORE wild and Agility?

It's +11 AC (+2 Touch) total with your dex modifier and Darkleaf Plate. Though, it will also cost you a feat for Heavy Armor Proficiency, as Druids don't normally get it (unless Darkleaf is treated as lower for feat purposes).

A Wildwood Breastplate +2 is only 4,700gp and gives you a total of +8 AC (+2 Touch) with your current Dex.

A Wildwood Breastplate +3 is only 9,700gp and adding Dex +4 to your gloves or Boots, would net you +11 AC (+4 Touch) for 700gp more. Of course, then you'd need wildling clasps for whichever item has the Dex on it.

A Wildwood Breastplate +5 is only 25,700gp and get's you the same +11 AC (+2 Touch) for 700gp more.

Of course, those last three assume that you're saying it's 25kgp BEFORE the wild/agility properties, which the more I think about it, the more I doubt.

I'd still consider going with the persistent shield spell over the shield though, to save some money.

Oh, and if you haven't seen it yet, the 'Trappings of the Beast' set of magic items in Complete Champion, is something you should be looking to get as quick as you can, if that's on your 'allowed' list.

QOShea

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2009, 04:34:56 PM »
The Darkleaf Full Plate is 25000gp after Wild and Agility are added.

I saw the Trappings, but it really doesn't match what I have right now.

Now I'm working up the Animal Familiar Companion.

Grizzlies are fun.

Can a familiar learn other skills aside from what skills are listed in its entry in the MM's? I can't find anything on this topic.

(Granted, I'm working so I have limited ability to look LOL)

ksbsnowowl

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2009, 04:38:25 PM »
For future character growth, Companion Spellbond (PHBII) is an awesome feat for a druid or AH.  Especially with the AH, look into the Lightning Leap spell (Comp Mage, Sor 5).  You get double the bang for your buck with that spell and your animal companion.
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QOShea

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2009, 04:40:57 PM »
For future character growth, Companion Spellbond (PHBII) is an awesome feat for a druid or AH.  Especially with the AH, look into the Lightning Leap spell (Comp Mage, Sor 5).  You get double the bang for your buck with that spell and your animal companion.

You mean Spell-Linked Familiar?

bearsarebrown

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2009, 04:43:13 PM »
Remember that the ability lets you apply familiar abilities your animal companion. You can't progress a familiar with your animal companion abilities.

Share Spells is the most ridiculous thing ever, especially when you have it with arcane and divine. Bite of the Wearbear is INSANE on a good companion. So is Animal Growth. And Nature's Avatar.

Bite of the Wearbear gives you a bite and two claws, so try to find something without those. Adding natural attacks is the easiest way to get it to do silly damage. And don't forget Rapidstrike  :D

ksbsnowowl

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2009, 04:51:46 PM »
For future character growth, Companion Spellbond (PHBII) is an awesome feat for a druid or AH.  Especially with the AH, look into the Lightning Leap spell (Comp Mage, Sor 5).  You get double the bang for your buck with that spell and your animal companion.

You mean Spell-Linked Familiar?
No, the Companion Spellbond feat from the Player's Handbook II.  It extends your Share Spells ability with your Animal Companion to 30 feet.

For the Lightning Leap thing, technically the basic Share Spells ability will work, as it is instantaneous, but Companion Spellbond has many more great uses.  It's very conceivable that you can manage to stay within 30 ft of each other during a combat.  Five feet, not so much...

Another great one, if you have access to Frostburn, is using Obscuring Snow and Snowsight together.  If you have CSB, then so long as your companion stays in the area of Obscuring Snow, he can share your snowsight.  You are a walking snowcloud of death.
Companion Spellbond also allows you to share Barkskins, Mage Armors, Shields, (Shapechange...), etc.  It will really help the both of you buff up.
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pithica

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2009, 04:53:27 PM »
Can a familiar learn other skills aside from what skills are listed in its entry in the MM's? I can't find anything on this topic.

It'll have human or greater than human intelligence eventually, so there's no reason why it shouldn't be able to learn other skills. Obviously, anything silly, like 'Craft Gemcutting' is probably not going to be useable, but you should be able to get any skill (as a cross-class skill) your AC could reasonably use.

The Creature in question, which starts as an Animal Companion and get's to add in Familiar abilities, is a new type of creature called a 'Companion Familiar'. Every DM I've played under has interpreted that to mean that any feat/PrC/etc that advances or expands on either Animal Companion OR Familiar will work, but I've seen (valid) arguments online for why they shouldn't.

If you CAN get it and your DM let's you treat your CF as a familiar for feats, the Enspell Familiar feat is the best option for abusing Share Spells, as it extends the range out to 1 mile (which is as far as the familiar can go away from you anyway). At your level, with your cohort, you could easily have Bite of the WereTiger persisted to both yourself and your companion, along with all your other buffs, practically all the time.

If you cannot get EF, Companion Spellbond allows some abuse of Share Spells, but the AC is limited to a range of 30ft, IIRC. Spell-Linked Familiar is another option, if your DM let's it count, to allow it to buff itself or give you some action economy with your spells.

Even if you go with something simple like a Hawk that shares your space, you can still really really abuse the buff mechanic, or share spells.

Body of War, for example, is a spell that very much sucks, generally, but Cast it on your companion familiar, and now you've got a potent additional tank in the party.

QOShea

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2009, 04:55:52 PM »
Remember that the ability lets you apply familiar abilities your animal companion. You can't progress a familiar with your animal companion abilities.

Share Spells is the most ridiculous thing ever, especially when you have it with arcane and divine. Bite of the Wearbear is INSANE on a good companion. So is Animal Growth. And Nature's Avatar.

Bite of the Wearbear gives you a bite and two claws, so try to find something without those. Adding natural attacks is the easiest way to get it to do silly damage. And don't forget Rapidstrike  :D

Bite of the Werebear is insane period. Not just for a grizzly companion, but for a druid wild shaped into a grizzly.

Nunkuruji

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2009, 05:02:26 PM »
If you have a liberal DM who accepts Dragon Magazine, you can potentially do something like

Druid 3 / Wizard 1 / Mystic Theurge  / Arcane Heirophant

This requires usage of the feat Alternative Spell Source, and Practiced Spellcaster to prepare 2nd level arcane spells in your Druid spell slots to qualify.

QOShea

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2009, 05:05:56 PM »
If you have a liberal DM who accepts Dragon Magazine, you can potentially do something like

Druid 3 / Wizard 1 / Mystic Theurge  / Arcane Heirophant

This requires usage of the feat Alternative Spell Source, and Practiced Spellcaster to prepare 2nd level arcane spells in your Druid spell slots to qualify.

No Dragon Magazine allowed unfortunately.

KellKheraptis

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2009, 05:07:38 PM »
If you have a liberal DM who accepts Dragon Magazine, you can potentially do something like

Druid 3 / Wizard 1 / Mystic Theurge  / Arcane Heirophant

This requires usage of the feat Alternative Spell Source, and Practiced Spellcaster to prepare 2nd level arcane spells in your Druid spell slots to qualify.

In that vein, I have a Fochlucan Lyrist build in my build thread that gets dual 9's, Initiate of Mystra (to use those dual 9's even in an AMF or dead magic zone), and BAB 16 by 20, if you ever feel like amping up the dual caster.  Would require a reformat most likely, since race has to be bamboo spirit folk for pass without trace, but once it gets rolling, it's SICK.
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2009, 05:27:17 PM »
If you have a liberal DM who accepts Dragon Magazine, you can potentially do something like

Druid 3 / Wizard 1 / Mystic Theurge  / Arcane Heirophant
You can do the same with Precocious Apprentice and the Focused Specialist alt class feature from Complete Mage.

Where are Enspell Familiar and Spell-Linked Familiar located?
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QOShea

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2009, 05:30:34 PM »
Got the Familiar Companion done now.

Name: Atlas    Race: Grizzly   Alignment: Grumpy

STR 28 (32)   DEX 14   CON 19   INT 10   WIS 12   CHA 06   HD 8d8+32

AC 29 (-1 Size, +2 Dex, +12 natural armor, +4 Studded Leather barding +2)

Skills (including stats and racial bonuses):
Hide +6; Listen +4; Move Silently +6; Spot +4; Swim +17

Feats:
Endurance; Run; Track

Equipment:
Torc of Giant Strength / Collar of Healing
Studded Leather Barding +2 (no check penalty thanks to masterwork)
Crystal of Arrow Deflection (Lesser)

pithica

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2009, 05:33:25 PM »
Where are Enspell Familiar and Spell-Linked Familiar located?

Dragon Compendium and Player's Handbook 2, respectively.

ksbsnowowl

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Re: Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2009, 05:35:48 PM »

AC 29 (-1 Size, +2 Dex, +12 natural armor, +4 Studded Leather barding +2)

Studded Leather +2 grants a +5 bonus, not +4.

In either case, your math is wrong (or you've left something out).  10 (base) -1 +2 +12 +5 = 28; not 29.
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