Author Topic: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster  (Read 13311 times)

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Azrael

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #100 on: September 01, 2009, 03:59:40 AM »
Im sorry, I didn't fee like reading all the posts so if this was mentioned (and I don't think it was cause this should basically prove a foolproof way of defeating him) excuse me.

Spells Needed: Forcecage, Contingency, Acid Fog, Teleport, Greater Blink, Dimension Door Greater, Mirror Image Greater, Otilukes Resilient Sphere, Celerity, Dimensional Anchor, Invisibility Greater, Orb of Force, Fly, Alter Fortune, Dimension Leap, Celerity Lesser, Nerveskitter, True Strike, True Casting, I mean, you really don't need any more, most are just for extra protection anyways.

Feats Needed: Quick Recovery, Improved Initiative, Quicken Spell, Acidic Splatter.

Items Needed: Belt of Battle, Vest/Cloak of Resistance (to get a higher will save), Mithril Twilight Chanshirt +5, empyreal (not for AC bonus, always put bonus to saves, yes I know you're not proficient, but again, you don't need it for AC), Headband of Int, Gloves of Fortunate Striking, Rod of Maximize (you don't need it but it makes it go quicker, and only if you can afford it, I didn't bother to check prices).

Class Abilities Needed: Conjuration Specialist (abrupt jaunt substitution feature); prohibited schools, enchantment, necromancy.


To prevent being charged and killed in the first round do something like: Contingency - activates if I am flat footed and attacked - casts Dimension Leap.

Obviously use Nerveskitter to get a bonus on initiative, in case you don't win, the contingency should save you. Should have at least a +11 bonus (nerveskitter, belt of battle, improved initiative) and thats assuming you have a 10 dex, which you shouldn't.

Cast forcecage around him (barred version), then use 2 charges from your belt of battle to cast Acid Fog (maximized with rod) if you have it. Repeat acid fog if not dead in 14 rounds, you can also hammer with acidic splatter or orb of force since its the barred version.

If he happens to have a teleportation item or something that you know of, use a quickened truestrike then dimensional anchor beforehand. If he happens to have one you didn't know about beforehand, use it afterwards, then repeat the forcecage/acid fog (you should have an extra forcecage if your int is high enough). If you happen to roll a nat 1 on the dimensional anchor use gloves or alter fortune...if you roll a nat 1 again you can just claim that it was horrifically bad luck and shouldn't count because realistically the chances of that happening are very low.

I mean, as long as you have celerity and quick recovery he shouldn't be able to touch you. Your will save should be high enough because you are a wizard and you have both a vest/cloak of resistance and the empyreal bonus.

You also have abrubt jaunt, mirror image greater, fly (can he even fly), invisibility greater (if you know he cant see invisibility).

If you get really desperate you can put a resilient sphere around yourself, cast greater dimension door, and move out of it as a move action on your turn, attack, then either use abrupt jaunt or celerity lesser as an immediate action when he approaches you to return to the sphere.

Also, dont neglect greater blink (if you even need to) it basically prevents you from being grappled, though, since abrupt jaunt or dimension leap dont have somatic components it should be pretty easy for you to get out of a grapple anyways.

If you run out of spells you can attack him with acidic splatter, just keep one acidic fog memorized (and you get an extra since you are conjuration specialist).


I mean, with this kind of a mage it would be hard enough for a caster to beat you let alone a warblade. I don't know exactly what a warblade can do but it should be nearly impossible for him to defeat you with a build like this.

I mean, this is just a basic build for me, I'm sure I could do better than this, but I don't think its needed. If I am missing something, please let me know.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #101 on: September 01, 2009, 04:07:19 AM »
Use a 20 lb cone, about an inch thick. Medium-sized. The top 1/4 can be only a few millimeters wide, if you like (since nothing is likely to attack the very tip, and if you make the top sharp enough, nothing will be very likely to step on it).

Also, boost its hardness, grab an undead (or construct) familiar, and haunt shift it, for more win?

Also, I believe I came up with the 'tinfoil hat trick,' IIRC. Thanks for the phrase coinage.

Of course, I also came up with the Big Book of Explosive Runes/dispel trick, the energy conversion-for-massive-damage trick, the shrink item + telekinesis trick, the prismatic sphere/domed wall of stone trick, the polymorph-into-a-nightmare/Assume Supernatural Ability for astral projection trick, and the summon monster + ring gate trick.

I'm sure there are others that I've forgotten about, too...

You could always buy a scroll of gate and hope for a successful CL check (1d20+13 vs a DC 17 check; protip: roll a 4 or better) to pull in about 40 hecatoncheires at one time (those epic level monstrosities from the ELH), and set them loose to ravage the warblade's soon-to-be corpse. Note that, A.) you can pull in any number of creatures of any number of HD (so long as they're not 'unique creatures'), B.) you can only control up to 2x your CL in HD of creatures, and C.) nobody ever said you HAD to be able to control them. Remember, you can teleport. The epic level abominations...can't. More importantly, neither can the warblade. Set 'em loose, and let the carnage begin.
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #102 on: September 01, 2009, 04:26:29 AM »
Stuff
Simplified; Humming Bird + NerveSkitter + Uncanny Forethought(geas) = epic win.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Prime32

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #103 on: September 01, 2009, 09:53:21 AM »
Casting geas as a standard action isn't that hot. It doesn't force your opponent to do anything, just punishes them every day they don't.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

KellKheraptis

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #104 on: September 01, 2009, 10:02:03 AM »
Casting geas as a standard action isn't that hot. It doesn't force your opponent to do anything, just punishes them every day they don't.

If I remember that trick, you then quicken it.  Granted, you could always set the task to something doable, but fuckall impossible for a warblade, and then teleport out and win the duel a few weeks later.  However...he can IHS out of that I would think.  I still like the Reverse Gravity into orbit and then splat idea, taking potshots with something (reserve feat, RTA spells, etc, hell even a crossbow at that point) the whole way up and down.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #105 on: September 01, 2009, 11:27:14 AM »
Casting geas as a standard action isn't that hot. It doesn't force your opponent to do anything, just punishes them every day they don't.
No, they have to attempt to do what you ask. The penalties are what they suffer if they are prevented from doing it.

Standard action Geas is a save-or-lose with no save.

Quote
The geased creature must follow the given instructions until the geas is completed, no matter how long it takes.

If the instructions involve some open-ended task that the recipient cannot complete through his own actions the spell remains in effect for a maximum of one day per caster level. A clever recipient can subvert some instructions:

If the subject is prevented from obeying the lesser geas for 24 hours, it takes a -2 penalty to each of its ability scores. Each day, another -2 penalty accumulates, up to a total of -8. No ability score can be reduced to less than 1 by this effect. The ability score penalties are removed 24 hours after the subject resumes obeying the lesser geas.

You can also use Limited Wish to cast it as a standard action, but of course that costs 300 XP.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 11:29:07 AM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Prime32

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #106 on: September 01, 2009, 11:54:10 AM »
Casting geas as a standard action isn't that hot. It doesn't force your opponent to do anything, just punishes them every day they don't.
No, they have to attempt to do what you ask. The penalties are what they suffer if they are prevented from doing it.

Standard action Geas is a save-or-lose with no save.

Quote
The geased creature must follow the given instructions until the geas is completed, no matter how long it takes.

If the instructions involve some open-ended task that the recipient cannot complete through his own actions the spell remains in effect for a maximum of one day per caster level. A clever recipient can subvert some instructions:

If the subject is prevented from obeying the lesser geas for 24 hours, it takes a -2 penalty to each of its ability scores. Each day, another -2 penalty accumulates, up to a total of -8. No ability score can be reduced to less than 1 by this effect. The ability score penalties are removed 24 hours after the subject resumes obeying the lesser geas.

You can also use Limited Wish to cast it as a standard action, but of course that costs 300 XP.
See geas/quest text
Quote
Instead of taking penalties to ability scores (as with lesser geas), the subject takes 3d6 points of damage each day it does not attempt to follow the geas/quest. Additionally, each day it must make a Fortitude saving throw or become sickened. These effects end 24 hours after the creature attempts to resume the geas/quest.

That's how geases worked in mythology - the problems arose when characters were under multiple contradictory geases, .
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 11:55:58 AM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #107 on: September 01, 2009, 12:43:18 PM »
So lesser geas is better than geas due to lesser forcing the subject to obey and the greater just lets them do whatever the hell they want.
...Umm. No.

Here, let me pick and choose empathized words.
Instead of taking penalties to ability scores (as with lesser geas), the subject takes 3d6 points of damage each day it does not attempt to follow the geas/quest.
Look, by that highlight we see geas does not replace lesser geas's cannot obey or must follow orders part. Only the penalties when it happens if you are unable to.

It makes it effectively read like this
If the subject is prevented from obeying the lesser geas for 24 hours, the subject takes 3d6 points of damage each day it does not attempt to follow the geas/quest. Additionally, each day it must make a Fortitude saving throw or become sickened. These effects end 24 hours after the creature attempts to resume the geas/quest.
Which also means the spell covers choosing to be helpless. After all, if you chain your self to a wall you are prevented from preforming the task but the spell will still demand you attempt to free your self.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #108 on: September 01, 2009, 12:48:29 PM »
So lesser geas is better than geas due to lesser forcing the subject to obey and the greater just lets them do whatever the hell they want.
...Umm. No.
That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject too, but I could see interpreting it Prime's way. I think the spells are just poorly written. Read one way they can be overpowered (if you bypass the 10 minute casting time somehow), and read the other way they are useless.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #109 on: September 01, 2009, 02:00:34 PM »
So lesser geas is better than geas due to lesser forcing the subject to obey and the greater just lets them do whatever the hell they want.
...Umm. No.
That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject too, but I could see interpreting it Prime's way. I think the spells are just poorly written. Read one way they can be overpowered (if you bypass the 10 minute casting time somehow), and read the other way they are useless.
Really, all of D&D pretty much works like that. It's what happens when a rule book is more of a guideline using DMs as scapegoats to poorly written material than a legal-like document.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

bkdubs123

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #110 on: September 07, 2009, 12:24:13 AM »
So, you'll have to let us all know how this turned out.  :p

SorO_Lost

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #111 on: September 07, 2009, 12:13:26 PM »
Eh, I'm betting he lost.

He may be playing in a real game and thus 90% of the tricks posted are probably out right banned but that's not even what I'm looking at. gooby_looper has a whole 17 posts and guess where they all are.
A. He never has posted here before, his opponent is unknown factor and odds suggest they read WotC's forums (or even here) just like gooby, either the lack of posts asking for help is a sign of confidence to match his boosts at the table top, or he is going to lose regardless of what he uses.
B. gooby is an account made to hide his real post name, which means the warblade user does read the forums, and thus knows every trick to be on the look out for now. Unless this is some rare Yaogi Light level of thinking and gooby is using this thread as a feint.

Since we're not cool enough to live out anima if B is true his odds are lower since the metagame element goes to his foe and A is just too much of an unknown to make any real guess to. Also supporting my guess is gooby wanted to be a Gray Elf... with 17 int and his post on page 5 where even though he had four pages of suggestions he went with the following.
1st round: win init with nerveskitter(immediate)/huge dex/danger sense; greater mirror image(swift); greater blink(sudden quickened); have cloak of displacement; cast dimension door straight up min 300ft
2nd round+: don't bother with fly---act while falling at "Ring of Featherfalling" speed (60ft/round)---cast divination to find out if he has SR(quickened); cast assay spell resistance(swift); cast avasculate three times, followed by a twinned, metamagic-rod-split ray, sudden maximized scorching ray.

I'd walk under a tree, poof the entire thing fails and he burned a lot of spells during round 1, so many in fact he can't use them all to begin with.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]