Author Topic: Build Help: Shifter-Weretouched-Bear Warrior... will it work?  (Read 2520 times)

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sir_argenon

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Build Help: Shifter-Weretouched-Bear Warrior... will it work?
« on: August 22, 2009, 09:30:27 PM »
the build i have in mind is a shifter with the feral template (buy off)

barb 5/ weretouched master 5/bear warrior 10.

the deal is, i dont know if the shifting alt-form granted by weretouched would stack with the bear warrior's bear forms.  im really not that good with the stacking rules, or the polymorph rules so some help would be appreciated.

Vormulac

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Re: Build Help: Shifter-Weretouched-Bear Warrior... will it work?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2009, 02:44:04 PM »
both are polymorph effects thus they don't stack, as per

Quote
Same Effect with Differing Results: The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. For example, a series of polymorph spells might turn a creature into a mouse, a lion, and then a snail. In this case, the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.


 i'd go frenzied berserker instead of bear warrior personaly

Khorus

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Re: Build Help: Shifter-Weretouched-Bear Warrior... will it work?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2009, 02:57:29 PM »
NVM this is what I was thinking of .

Shifter Savagery
 When Shifting and Raging at the same time, the threat range with your natural weapons doubles (typically
to 19–20) and the base damage improves as if you were a creature two sizes larger.   
Does not stack with any other feat or effect that improves threat range.
Does not stack with any other feat (such as Improved Natural Attack) that improves the base damage of you
natural weapons (unless it actually makes you larger, such as Enlarge Person).
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 02:59:36 PM by Khorus »

Vormulac

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Re: Build Help: Shifter-Weretouched-Bear Warrior... will it work?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2009, 06:36:41 PM »
you could always use beads of dire shifting (RoE) to increase the size, as per enlard person and a couple of levels of warshaper (CW) for an extra size increase on your natural weapons

pfooti

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Re: Build Help: Shifter-Weretouched-Bear Warrior... will it work?
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2009, 07:24:13 PM »
Yeah, you can't really be a Bear from Bear Warrior and from Weretouched Master at the same time, since they're both polymorph effects. That said, you could maybe use Bear Warrior and WtM to gain a LOT of uses of bearform every day. Personally, I'd skip Bear Warrior, as you clearly can't use equipment in Bearform from Bear Warrior, whereas you *might* be able to gain the bonuses from hybrid form while still in your armor (I'm a little unclear on how hybrid forms work for lycanthropes).

You should also look at Warshaper for either build - gaining a bump to your natural attack die size (or an extra attack type), an additional +4 str/con, and fast healing 2 is pretty good.

Ithamar

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Re: Build Help: Shifter-Weretouched-Bear Warrior... will it work?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2009, 07:30:55 PM »
Weretouched Master was heavily errata'ed.  Basically you still shift, but there is no more hybrid form.  As shifting is a (Su) ability, you should be able to go Bear Warrior and polymorph into a bear form, then shift and your bear form would gain the stat boosts, natural armor bonuses, etc.
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sir_argenon

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Re: Build Help: Shifter-Weretouched-Bear Warrior... will it work?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 11:03:46 AM »
so the shift is *not* a polymorph? hmm  or is it? like i said, i really wasnt sure what the reading of it was..

the warshaper does look good, especially with INA added to the mix. 2 size increases  :D

i cant use the shifter savagery feat cuz it definitely doesnt stack with any of the other size increase goodies...

pfooti

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Re: Build Help: Shifter-Weretouched-Bear Warrior... will it work?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2009, 11:13:08 AM »
No, it's a polymorph now. Take a look at the Eberron Errata - here. Basically, you get the ability to change into another shape as per the alternate form rules (it's a polymorph), but you go back to getting the base stats of the creature in question and get a little bump (bears become a black bear (that's the small one) with a +4 str), and you can't stack shifting on top of that.

If you're going for uber-bear goodness, in that case, I'd suggest Bear Warrior 5 / Warshaper 4 - that gives you Brown Bear form, which is Large (yay) and has a base 1d6/1d8 claw/bite damage. You get +16 str (!) from brown bear form and another +4 str from warshaper. You also get an innate claw damage die bump from warshaper (or maybe a gore or tailslap if you'd rather), plus fast healing and crit immunity. All that stacks with basic shifting as well. Of course, you have to give up using weapons to do it, but bear warriors tend toward grappling anyway. See also my thread about the Always-On-Fire-Bear for thoughts about how to add in totemist and incarnate levels for even more flexibility in bearform.

sir_argenon

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Re: Build Help: Shifter-Weretouched-Bear Warrior... will it work?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2009, 12:31:51 PM »
ok.. so removing weretouched from the build.. would a normal shifting still be able to stack with the bear warrior?

pfooti

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Re: Build Help: Shifter-Weretouched-Bear Warrior... will it work?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2009, 01:00:24 PM »
I'm AFB right now, but I believe so. Shifting stacks with druid wildshaping, which is pretty analogous to bearform (YMMV, though).