Author Topic: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known  (Read 22003 times)

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Irthos Levethix

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2008, 03:28:58 PM »
Yeah, a lvl 9 Solar dies in the first round of combat.  And somehow, comic books > novels for wizards?  Are you serious?
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Alastar

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2008, 04:52:35 PM »
Gandalf, in addition to being one of the magicians, is also a malar.  The malar are the servants of the great gods, the valar, and are godly unto themselves.

His power is comparable to that of sauron without the ring.

He clearly has some divine ranks, somewhere around 3-4

He is also the guardian of the ring of fire, one of the three elven rings.

Personally: Dr.Fate gets his ass kicked by hawkgirl repeatedly, wich makes him a pussy for me.
Elminster is too much mystra's bitch
Raistlin Caughs too much
Rand is an emo annoying teen
I don't know who pug is.

So i go with gandalf, cause he rockzors!!

Straw_Man

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2008, 05:28:43 PM »

He may be one of the Malar, but divine ranks didn't seem to do much for him.
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2008, 05:34:20 PM »
Personally: Dr.Fate gets his ass kicked by hawkgirl repeatedly, wich makes him a pussy for me.
Your point being? Deathstroke took the JLA down solo and Vindicator blasted Galactus for the win. Ignore plot-induced stupidity and look at the standard power level. None of the challengers mentioned here have nothing on Fate. Absolutely nothing.

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Prime32

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2008, 05:58:10 PM »
This guy wins:
Yet another one for Fate!

That's not Dr. Fate, it's Dr. Strangefate, the amalgamation of Doctor Strange, Doctor Fate, and Professor X.
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2008, 06:09:56 PM »
I didn't really want to get into a nitpicking geekfest over this, but if you insist...
Gandalf, in addition to being one of the magicians, is also a malar.  The malar are the servants of the great gods, the valar, and are godly unto themselves.
It's maiar, the plural of maia, not malar.

Solars in the fluff text (somewhere... I forget where... maybe a 2nd edition book...) are described as beings that were powerful enough to become gods themselves, but instead chose to serve another god. They are the "champions" of the gods. To me, this means in D&D terms that the maiar are on the same power level as solars. Solars aren't officially given a DR in their 3.X D&D stats, hence why I said I think Gandalf in D&D terms is a DR 0 Solar. If you look at the immunities, Spell Resistance, and other stats Solars are given in 3.X, you'll notice that they do have alot of the qualities of DR 0 beings, though.

Quote
His power is comparable to that of sauron without the ring.
Which doesn't really tell us much, because we don't have Sauron's D&D stats, either.

Quote
He clearly has some divine ranks, somewhere around 3-4
The maiar were not really full fledged "gods" themselves, but were "divine" ("godly"). They were servants of, and clearly lesser beings than, the valar (the "real gods"). At most, I think they'd be DR 0. Although, just being powerful outsiders would make them immortal. So even giving them that much of a DR is debateable, I think.

Quote
He is also the guardian of the ring of fire, one of the three elven rings.
Which also does nothing to help us determine what an equivalent being in D&D would be. It just means he has a magic (artifact, likely) ring.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 06:15:23 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Tshern

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2008, 06:10:55 PM »
I know, I own the entire Amalgam series and Strangefate never showed anything beyond Fate's normal capabilities and his powers were the main thing of that hero anyway. Just like saying combining Nightcrawler and the Living Tribunal creates something more than the Living Tribunal.

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2008, 07:19:14 PM »
 Alright let me just start by saying that I am completely new to forums and am only here b-cuz a friend of mine asked me this question and asked my take. After reading me some of the responses I had to co0m hee and put in my two sense. Sorry. Oh and I have NO IDEA what the silent rules of courtesy are so somke of you are apt to get peturbed. Oops. Anyway here goes:

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2008, 07:44:24 PM »
 Like I said "I'[m new." :blush Anyway, first and foremost if you want to offer your op[inion in this you should be at least familiar with all of the characters. I am woefully ignorant of Dr. Fate but ANYONE who gets thier ass kicked regularly by someone named "Hawkgirl" w/ a mace?????? What, is that like his Kryptonite??? Sorry dude you gotta go. BYE. Now on to Dr. Doom. Seriously???? I think you've been razed enough for now sooo...... BYE. Merlin? Hmmm I agree with the guy who said that he was powerful in a land w/ little magik, I agree but to take it further I see him as a druid type and not a very powerful one @ that so..... BYE. Don't know John Constantine so I'll keep my big mouth shut on that one :sh. Now on to Elminster.... Somewhere in the Forgotton Realms Handbook it breaks down his levels so we can get a really good fix on him. PUSSY!!!! Without Mystra he's nothing more than mid level wizard. Alt5hough I am surprised to see that no one put up his Grey Hawk counterpart. Can't remember his name but from what I remember he was pretty up there too. So let's move on to Rand Al-thor. While I salute you on your reading and loyalties come on he is more tghe sorcerer type but if we wwere to include him here... the power he throws around is nothing to Gandalf who was never really defined. Not even in the Simarrillion. And by the way, my hat is off to all of you who completed that novel. I never could (tried 4x's, reads like the damn bible) So here we are with only three REAL candidates. Raistlin, Gandolph, and Pug. (I didn't 4get Dumbledore but we never see him DO real magik, mostly Cantrips and what-not so....BYE) Now as for Gandolf>>> hard One. Don't get me wrong I have my opinions too but I got anAppointment now so I'm gonna take a time-out 4 now and will finish this later 4 anyone who wants to hear/read it. c-u-soon.

Prime32

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2008, 07:53:22 PM »
Was there any need to post twice?

I am woefully ignorant of Dr. Fate but ANYONE who gets thier ass kicked regularly by someone named "Hawkgirl" w/ a mace?????? What, is that like his Kryptonite??? Sorry dude you gotta go. BYE.
That mace is, as someone put it, "an antimagic singularity on a stick". Hawkgirl killed Cthuulhu with that mace.

Quote
Now on to Elminster.... Somewhere in the Forgotton Realms Handbook it breaks down his levels so we can get a really good fix on him. PUSSY!!!! Without Mystra he's nothing more than mid level wizard. Alt5hough I am surprised to see that no one put up his Grey Hawk counterpart. Can't remember his name but from what I remember he was pretty up there too.
Elminster is CR 39. Mid-level?! All of the Greyhawk wizards (including Tenser and Mordenkainen) are lower level - check the Epic Level Handbook.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 08:03:52 PM by Prime32 »
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

AfterCrescent

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2008, 08:57:13 PM »
Hawkgirl killed Cthuulhu with that mace.
o.O

Also, yeah, I can see why Fate would fear the mace. As long as he doesn't fear her, he's still on top.
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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2008, 09:52:40 PM »
 Your right. I stand corrected. Elminster might be a CR39 but still we're looking for the greatest wizard and Elminster while a wizard and so much more in my opinion (and thats what thgis is, I mean look @ all the cheerleaders out there for this Dr. Fate. Is he a good guy or a bad guy anyway? Not that it matters but still.... Curious. Now on to Gandolph. I believe Him to be the greatest literary wizard known. Notice I did not say the most powerful. EVERYONE knows of Gandolph even those of the Muggle population who could not name Tenser and Mordenkainen :blush But as to the most powerful I would have to Finally Come down to Raistlin and Pug. Now @ the hieght of his power Raistlin challenged and defeated all the gods to become the only god!!!!!! Even with that cough :) Whereas @ the hieght of his power Pug stood in a Roman style Colliseum and Challenged ALL greater magicians to battle him. He draws his magic from two seperate worlds and He regularly travels from one world top the other in his studies and is the Archetypical wizard (as are Raistlin, Gandolph, and Elminster) but going by the Spells and amount of power used by each in thier respective "worlds", As much I like Pug more, I would have to throw my lot in w/  Raistlin.                                                                                                                                             As a child he looked up into the night sky, cursed the gods for thier acts, and swore revenge!!!! Then he killed them. Sounds like someone I would not want mad @ me huh?

altpersona

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2008, 12:47:07 AM »
im pretty sure dnd printed lord of the rings stuff back in basic or adnd, seems they got themselves sued real good..

its who ever gets initiative and time stops first.. otherwise althor balefires the piss out of the lot of them.. then he would cry cause he hates killing bitches....
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 12:49:49 AM by altpersona »
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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2008, 10:54:44 AM »
I would say that while Gandalf is very powerful (to have taken on a balrog amongst other stuff), he is not a powerful wizard, since he does not really display a lot of magical capabilities in the books, and would thus be disqualified. :P

Dnd does have a few wizards stronger than Elminster. The Terraseer is a sarrukh wiz25/archmage5 lich, Halaster is also a wiz25/archmage5, Ioulam is an elder brain wiz31/archmage5/netherese arcanist5 to name a few, but Elminster is probably still the most iconic.

So yeah, my vote goes to Elminster. :blush
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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2008, 11:31:56 AM »
Just a general announcement:
For the love of all things that give Sacred bonuses, it's spelled G-A-N-D-A-L-F!
Not G-A-N-D-O-L-P-H, nor G-O-N-D-A-L-P-H. And certainly not G-A-N-N-O-N-D-O-R-P-H!
That is all, just had to get that hair out of my nether regions, continue.
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Prime32

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2008, 12:21:18 PM »

Magus from Chrono Trigger (him again) is so powerful that the god of magic is scared of him, and says that Magus could teach him a thing or two. :smirk

Given the type of game he appears in, he's mostly a blaster, but he has shown the ability to summon deities and travel through time, as well as use baleful polymorph, levitate, and energy absorption (and as for blasting, he can use every element in a world where the rules of magic normally make it impossible to use more than one). He also has a lot of hit points and magical shields. His Charisma is so high that, as a human, he became the leader, worshipped as a god, of a race of human-hating demons almost without realising it. Oh, and he has a scythe that gets a cumulative +100% power boost whenever someone dies around him (and the skills to use it).

In fact, here's a reply someone made to the comment "Sephiroth pwns Magus"
[spoiler]
Quote
There is no way Sephiroth, a sword-puller, can match against the Squaresoft equivalent of Gandalf on crack.

Sephiroth was agumented from birth with cells from an alien life form, giving him great abilities. He became the top SOLDIER member and eventaully went on to win fame by stabbing a physically weak flower girl in the back. How macho.

Magus was born with the highest power in his whole kingdom, being able to cloak his insane magic strength from everyone but his sister and Melchior, two incredibly powerful people. A true archmage, he has mastered the most powerful magic, Shadow. The god of War, Spekkio, who teaches magic to the whole party, is afraid of Magus. He admits Magus could teach him stuff about magic. Even knowing Shadow means you have mastered every other type of magic that exists. When Magus was confronted by the most powerful Knight in Guardia, Cyrus, and the best swordsman in Guardia, Gelnn, he beat the crap out of them. Not only that, he broke the sacred sword, the hope of a nation, the Grandlion (not Masamune), in half. He then turned Glenn into a frog.

So not only do we have a wizard with matchless ability, we have a warrior who responds to a challenge by bitch-slapping the strongest knight in the realm to death, busting his legendary sword, and turning his buddy into a frog. Sephiroth stabbed a young woman in the back while she was praying.

Also, what seems to have been lost on everyone is that Sephiroth has no way to damage Magus. But what about his Masamune? The sword that can hurt Magus is not the Masamune, but rather the Grandlion. For some strange reason, it was translated as "Masamune", although they are not the same weapon. You can't hurt Magus unless you have the Grandlion sword or Lavos-level power. How high is Lavos-level power? Power enough to cripple and destroy the planet. If Sephiroth had possessed this kind of power, he would not have needed to summon Meteor to create a wound in the planet. So there is virtually no way for Sephiroth to get past Magus' innate resistance to everything and the magic barriers he was good at raising.

Anything Sephiroth has learned about magic from bits of glass of the Cetra cannot compare to the knowledge of a real, live, honest-to-god wizard. Among Magus' powers are flying and opening gates in time and space to attract the evil entity Lavos (who actually succeeded in destroying the world). The most powerful being in the world could be summoned like a butler if Magus felt the need.

Sephiroth has no way to damage Magus, not with his weapon or his weak materia. He will not be able to defend himself from the most powerful magic that exists or escape from a man who can fly and open portals in time. The only possible way he gets this is by sheer number of fanvotes.
Quote
Magus is one of the game's harder boss fights. Sephiroth, even though he's the final boss, is rather easy.
Quote
Quote
So Seph wanted to be one with the world huh? sounds alot like Lavos to me and Magus was obsessed with destroying Lavos. Magus is like the Dr. Doom of SquarSoft. indomitable will and massive personal power. Seph might have the edge in raw power, but Magus more than makes up for it in versatility.

If Seph tries any elemental magick he's gonna be in a big surprise due to Magus's shields. He might even find his supernova spells energy pulled into a Black Hole (i mean it could happen) and thats when Magus goes for the coup de gras: Dark Matter

and ya know, Magus has cool music
Quote
Damn, this is a hard one.

Both of them where the coolest characters in their respective games. Magus turned good, but if that is a pre or con can be debated.

Sephiroth has a better sense of style, but Magus has that cape and glove pulling-thing going for him.

It's hard to topple the awesome coolness of the choirs in "One Winged Angel", Sephiroth's theme, but Magus' theme has that rhythm that's just sooo fine!

Sword or Scythe? Swords are cooler, but according to Terry Pratchett, a scythe is a lethal weapon in the hands of an expert and Magus is definitely an expert.

I guess it all comes down to origin. I'm not all sure who designed Sephiroth, but apparently he or she was friends with whoever came up with Kunzite from Sailor Moon. My point? All of the four generals are now dead as doornails!

Now Magus was designed by *Akira Toriyama*, the man behind Dragonball Z! And that will lend him the win. You see, Toriyama's characters are *freaking unkillable!* Oh, yes, they get killed all the time, but they just. keep. coming. back! And they come back stronger, too!

"But Ghost, that only applies to DBZ-characters!" you say? Yeah, as if! Consider:

In FF7, Aeris got a sword through her belly and died. She didn't come back.

In Crono Trigger, Crono was FRIGGIN' DISINTEGRATED! And he *still* came back!

Apparently, the "Won't-Stay-Dead-Rule" effects all of Toriyama's characters.

"But Magus can be killed in the game!"

Ah, yes. That is because the Toriyama-Reincarnation only applies to "heroes". The fact that Magus is on the look for Schala implies that this is Magus after they defeated Lavos. That means that Magus is now a hero. Even if Sephiroth slices him in two pieces, Magus will be back somehow, twice as strong and ready to rumble again. It might take a while, but in the end, the Magus will triumph!
[/spoiler]


Are we just counting members of the wizard class here?
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 04:05:44 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Tshern

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2008, 02:26:57 PM »
Quote
Magus from Chrono Trigger (him again) is so powerful that the god of magic is scared of him, and says that Magus could teach him a thing or two.
Nice. If he learned to use his powers to something else than blasting we might have a decent challenger for Dr. Fate.

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DetectiveJabsco

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2008, 04:24:03 PM »
Really, it is Elminster.
Weather he should win or not
does not matter
Fact is, He starts to loose
Mystra Comes and Epic Wins.
Thats all there is to it.

You don't bring Knifes to a gun fight,
No guns to a magic fight,
and no magic to a God Fight.

Quote me on that. It will be big.

Straw_Man

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2008, 04:33:35 PM »

Most of the one's still in the running are demigods or godkillers. Elminster, even with his cheating hoe (though I love Msytara - just can't abide bad sports), has no special advantage.

I see it going something like this. "You brought a god to a wizard battle? Jeeze. Guys, lets take this tool and his goddess and show them whatfor."
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

Irthos Levethix

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Re: The Greatest Wizard the World has Ever Known
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2008, 04:38:58 PM »
I'll get to really posting and updating this battle's progress in a few hours, but I had to say this:

Jabsco, friggin awesome.

Straw, winningest reply ever.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 04:40:39 PM by Irthos Levethix »
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