Is this class Balanced?

[Ramaloke]

I found this on DanDWiki, but Im not quite sure it's balanced, what do you all think?

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Fire_Mage_%283.5e_Class%29

Unedited Fire Mage[spoiler]
Making a Fire Mage:

Alignment: Fire is a destructive force, and a lot of Fire Mages are Chaotic. But they don't have to be.

Races: Fire Mages appear in all races, though significant portions of many races live in areas where being a Fire Mage is illegal.

Starting Gold: 6d6×10 gp (210 gp).

Code: [Select]

LVL BAB FORT REF WILL SPECIAL
01 +0 +2 +2 +2 Fire Resistance, Fire Burst, Fire Bolts, Impress Flames, Fire Magic
02 +1 +3 +3 +3 Ignite
03 +2 +3 +3 +3 Piercing Flames, Hand of Fire
04 +3 +4 +4 +4 Fire Immunity, Smokeless Flame
05 +3 +4 +4 +4 Fireballs
06 +4 +5 +5 +5 Mindfire
07 +5 +5 +5 +5 Visions of Flame
08 +6/+1 +6 +6 +6 Soul of Cinders
09 +6/+1 +6 +6 +6 Sculpt Flames
10 +7/+2 +7 +7 +7 Conflagration
11 +8/+3 +7 +7 +7 Beacon, Firewalk
12 +9/+4 +8 +8 +8 Bonds of Fire
13 +9/+4 +8 +8 +8 Fire Clouds
14 +10/+5 +9 +9 +9 Searing Light, Ray of Light
15 +11/+6/+1 +9 +9 +9 Sending, Rain of Fire


Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Concentration (Con), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (-), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex).
[edit]

Class Features:

All of the following are class features of the Fire Mage.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Fire Mages are proficient with all simple weapons, as well as the whip, all martial axes, and all sizes and varieties of scimitar (including falchions). Fire Mages are proficient with light armor but not with shields of any kind.

Fire Resistance (Ex): A Fire Mage has a Resistance to Fire equal to twice his level.

Fire Burst (Sp):Fire Bolts (Sp): A fire mage can throw bolts of fire as an attack action. A fire bolt travels out to short range, and inflicts 1d6 of fire damage per level. A fire bolt strikes its target with a ranged touch attack.

Impress Flames (Ex): Every time a Fire Mage inflicts Fire damage on any target, whether with his class abilities or another source of fire, he inflicts an amount of extra Fire Damage equal to his class level or his Charisma modifier, whichever is less.

Fire Magic (Ex): A Fire Mage is considered to have every spell with the Fire Descriptor on his spell list for the purpose of activating magic items.

Ignite (Sp): As a standard action, a 2nd level Fire Mage can cause any creature or object to burst into flame. A creature on fire suffers 1d6 of Fire damage per round (the Mage's Impress Flames ability applies to each round of course), and the creature can attempt to put itself out with a DC 15 Reflex save (see the DMG, p. 303). This ability can be used out to Medium range, and it always hits.

Piercing Flames (Ex):Hand of Fire (Su): A 3rd level Fire Mage can set fire to their own body, causing them to count as armed at all times, even with unarmed attacks. The Fire Mage also causes an extra 1d6 of Fire damage with all melee attacks.

Fire Immunity (Ex): A 4th level Fire Mage is immune to Fire.

Smokeless Flame (Sp): A 4th level Fire Mage can create fires that produce no heat and do not burn. These fires can be anything from the size of a torch to a bonfire, and produce light accordingly. Each lasts until the next time the sun rises. Smokeless Flame can be created anywhere within Medium range.

Fireballs (Sp):Mindfire (Sp):Visions of Flame (Sp): A 7th level Fire Mage can contact other plane to communicate with the denizens of the Elemental Plane of Fire. A Fire Mage is in no danger of becoming insane or damaged by this experience.

Soul of Cinders (Sp): An 8th level Fire Mage has burnt his soul to ash, and is no longer susceptible to Energy Drain or Fear.

Sculpt Flames (Sp):Conflagration (Sp):Beacon (Sp): An 11th level Fire Mage can create a magically permanent bonfire as a standard action. He always knows exactly where each Beacon he has created is and will know if it is put out by any means.

Firewalk (Sp): At 11th level a Fire Mage can walk into any fire large enough to fit his person and appear in any other fire that is likewise of sufficient size anywhere on any plane of existence. The Fire Mage must know where the target fire is. The Fire Mage can take any number of willing creatures or carried objects that are also able to fit in both flames.

Bonds of Fire (Sp):Fire Clouds (Sp):Searing Light (Sp):Ray of Light (Sp): As an attack action, a 14th level Fire Mage can fire a ray of Light at any target within Short Range. It inflicts 1d6 of Light Damage per level if it hits with a Ranged Touch Attack. Undead take 10 extra damage. Creatures specifically vulnerable to Light suffer an additional 10 damage.

Sending (Sp): A 15th level Fire Mage can send a message, as the sending spell to any creature on any plane of existence with a standard action and receive a reply even if they are on different planes of existence.


Rain of Fire (Sp):

[Suzerain]

Well, I'm seeing Contact Other Plane at 7th, the transport version of Gate at 11th, a scaling Entangle (with opposed skill check, to boot) that deals damage on 12th, a light attack with outrageous radius that blinds, and what is essentially a completely shapeable version of Apocalypse from the Sky (9th lvl spell) at 15th. All of these abilities are at will. I daresay these abilities can be unbalancing for a campaign. I wouldn't recommend it unless you play a Tome game (where all PCs/NPCs may use all of F&K's stuff), to be honest. I haven't seen one of those in play, however (others may have).

[Braithwaite]

I think it is balanced only in games that are extremely optimized. Tier 1s with good builds and spell choices will beat it. If I were going to rank it, I would call it tier 2 or top of tier 3, but with the understanding that it essentially gets all of its good stuff as class abilities, and it would seriously outclass even tier 1 and 2s that weren't built well or didn't make top spell choices. Comparing it with most of the classes in the game, it is way overpowered.

[Ramaloke]

So if I where to prune some abilities (lets say the ridiculous blind ability, and the shapeable apocalypse from the sky), spread the abilities over 20 levels instead of 15 and add an "elemental transformation" ability as the capstone would it be more acceptable?

-edit- Id probably also have to add damage caps to some of the abilities as well now that I think about it.

[woodenbandman]

I was noticing the 1d6 per class level + Cha mod ranged touch attack used as an attack action. Which can have Spell-Llike Ability feats applied to it.

[Ramaloke]

Oh, just so you all know what my hopes for this class are, I'll be in a lvl 21 Gestalt game sometime soon, and Im planning on using this on one side of my progression, I just need to make sure its balanced as well as can be before I introduce it to my DM.

[woodenbandman]

Also most of those abilities should be changed to Supernatural, just because it fits better. Supernatural abilities are also slightly better.

[Ramaloke]

Here is my modified version, any better?

I've delayed certain abilities to later levels, lowered the saves so they aren't all good, placed a limiter on Rain of Fire, and thrown in a capstone ability similar to that of the elemental savants.

[spoiler]Making a Fire Mage:

Alignment: Fire is a destructive force, and a lot of Fire Mages are Chaotic. But they don't have to be.

Races: Fire Mages appear in all races, though significant portions of many races live in areas where being a Fire Mage is illegal.

Starting Gold: 6d6×10 gp (210 gp).

Code: [Select]

LVL BAB FORT REF WILL SPECIAL
01 +0 +0 +2 +2 Fire Resistance, Fire Burst, Fire Bolts, Impress Flames, Fire Magic
02 +1 +0 +3 +3 Ignite
03 +2 +1 +3 +3 Piercing Flames
04 +3 +1 +4 +4 Smokeless Flame
05 +3 +1 +4 +4 Fire Immunity
06 +4 +2 +5 +5 Hand of Fire
07 +5 +2 +5 +5 Fireballs
08 +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Soul of Cinders
09 +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Mindfire
10 +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Sculpt Flames
11 +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Conflagration
12 +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Beacon
13 +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Bonds of Fire
14 +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Fire Clouds
15 +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Ray of Light
16 +12/+7/+2 +5 +9 +9 Sending
17 +12/+7+/2 +5 +9 +9 Visions of Flame
18 +13/+8/+3 +6 +9 +9 Firewalk
19 +14/+9/+4 +6 +9 +9 Rain of Fire
20 +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Body of Cinders


Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Concentration (Con), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (-), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex).

Class Features:

All of the following are class features of the Fire Mage.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Fire Mages are proficient with all simple weapons, as well as the whip, all martial axes, and all sizes and varieties of scimitar (including falchions). Fire Mages are proficient with light armor but not with shields of any kind.

Fire Resistance (Ex): A Fire Mage has a Resistance to Fire equal to twice his level.

Fire Burst (Sp):Fire Bolts (Sp): A fire mage can throw bolts of fire as an attack action. A fire bolt travels out to short range, and inflicts 1d6 of fire damage per level. A fire bolt strikes its target with a ranged touch attack.

Impress Flames (Ex): Every time a Fire Mage inflicts Fire damage on any target, whether with his class abilities or another source of fire, he inflicts an amount of extra Fire Damage equal to his class level or his Charisma modifier, whichever is less.

Fire Magic (Ex): A Fire Mage is considered to have every spell with the Fire Descriptor on his spell list for the purpose of activating magic items.

Ignite (Sp): As a standard action, a 2nd level Fire Mage can cause any creature or object to burst into flame. A creature on fire suffers 1d6 of Fire damage per round (the Mage's Impress Flames ability applies to each round of course), and the creature can attempt to put itself out with a DC 15 Reflex save (see the DMG, p. 303). This ability can be used out to Medium range, and it always hits.

Piercing Flames (Ex):Smokeless Flame (Su): A 4th level Fire Mage can create fires that produce no heat and do not burn. These fires can be anything from the size of a torch to a bonfire, and produce light accordingly. Each lasts until the next time the sun rises. Smokeless Flame can be created anywhere within Medium range.

Fire Immunity (Ex): A 5th level Fire Mage is immune to Fire.

Hand of Fire (Su): A 6th level Fire Mage can set fire to their own body, causing them to count as armed at all times, even with unarmed attacks. The Fire Mage also causes an extra 1d6 of Fire damage with all melee attacks.

Fireballs (Sp):Soul of Cinders (Ex): An 8th level Fire Mage has burnt his soul to ash, and is no longer susceptible to Energy Drain or Fear.

Mindfire (Sp):Sculpt Flames (Sp):Conflagration (Sp):Beacon (Su): An 12th level Fire Mage can create a magically permanent bonfire as a standard action. He always knows exactly where each Beacon he has created is and will know if it is put out by any means.

Bonds of Fire (Sp):Fire Clouds (Sp):Ray of Light (Sp): As an attack action, a 15th level Fire Mage can fire a ray of Light at any target within Short Range. It inflicts 1d6 of Light Damage per level if it hits with a Ranged Touch Attack. Undead take 10 extra damage. Creatures specifically vulnerable to Light suffer an additional 10 damage.

Sending (Su): A 16th level Fire Mage can send a message, as the sending spell to any creature on any plane of existence with a standard action and receive a reply even if they are on different planes of existence.

Visions of Flame (Su): A 17th level Fire Mage can contact other plane to communicate with the denizens of the Elemental Plane of Fire. A Fire Mage is in no danger of becoming insane or damaged by this experience.

Firewalk (Su): At 18th level a Fire Mage can walk into any fire large enough to fit his person and appear in any other fire that is likewise of sufficient size anywhere on any plane of existence. The Fire Mage must know where the target fire is. The Fire Mage can take any number of willing creatures or carried objects that are also able to fit in both flames.

Rain of Fire (Sp):Body of Cinders(Ex): At 10th level a Fire Mage completely transcends his mortal form to become an elemental creature of fire. His type changes to elemental. He nolonger needs to eat, sleep or breathe. He gains an elemental creature's immunity to stunning, and is no longer subject to extra damage from critical hits or flanking. [/spoiler]

[Alastar]

Fire Bolts (Sp): A fire mage can throw bolts of fire as an attack action. A fire bolt travels out to short range, and inflicts 1d6 of fire damage per level. A fire bolt strikes its target with a ranged touch attack.

This, this is way too strong.

Why hello there, mister hasted fire mage, care to make 5 20d6+cha damage ranged touch attacks this round?  Why of course my young lad of course!!

Also, all of the class abilities need to be (su).

If your dead set on leaving them as spell likes, determine a level of spell for the abilities.

I think it's a pretty good class thought!!

[Suzerain]

(su) makes them punch through SR...

Attack action... I didn't catch that. It's like one of the Warlock fixes around this forum, though. He only spends a lesser invocation to get the equivalent

edit: typo

[skydragonknight]

For starters: "Fire Bolts: ...No two bolts can be directed at the same target in a given round."

[Surgo]

Some of the replies here are really dumb. I take it none of you who are complaining about the Fire Bolts have ever seen a Rogue before?

[Alastar]

Hahahaha, you know what, let's compare a bit

Rogue level 20 = 10d6 sneak attack

Fire Mage level 20 = 20d6 fire bolts !wins


Sneak Attack = Requires a melee or ranged attack

Fire Bolt = Requires a ranged touch attack  ! wins


Sneak Attack = Requires the target to be debuffed (flat footed, flanked, or denied it's dex bonus in any way)

Fire Bolt = Requires squat shit, aside from a will to burn the target  ! wins


Sneak Attack = Creatures immune to sneak attack: Constructs, plants, undead, Elementals,

Fire Bolts = Creatures immune to fire bolts: Creatures with the fire subtype, to be fair, a lot of creatures resist fire too.(bypassed by class feature from fire mage).  ! win


Sneak Attack = A slew of class powers (uncanny dodge...)  magical items ( Heavy Fortification) and spells (elemental body...) Make you immune to it.  ! draw
 
Fire Bolts = Some class powers (Elemental savant) a lot of magical items (rings and armors) and spells (resist, protection, immunity, fire shield)  make you immune to it (bypassed by fire mage class feature) ! draw

[Paradox]

Fire Mage maxes at level 15.

So it's 7d6-15d6 vs 10d6
meh

You forgot:
Usable on multiple attacks
Sa= yes
Fb= no
Weapon Damage Bonus
Sa= yes
Fb= no

Also with Weapon Crystals those immunities no longer matter.

[Ashyl]

If you made the Fire Bolts damage progression the same as the Warlock's Eldrich Blast and keep the 20 level version I'd say it's pretty balanced.

I mean, who DOESN'T have fire resistance after level.... 5? You'll need a way to make your attacks do something to those resistant or immune to fire.

Plus, all other abilities except Fire Bolts are standard or full round actions... No swift or immidiate actions are used at all, meaning much less things to do each round.

[bogsnes]

But still, we have to consider that pure damage (most) often isn't the best way of spending combats...

Look at the barbarian, as an example... A charger barbarian can autokill about anything it can charge starting at about level 6 or something... Still the barbarian isn't very overpowered...

[Braithwaite]

If you made the Fire Bolts damage progression the same as the Warlock's Eldrich Blast and keep the 20 level version I'd say it's pretty balanced.

I mean, who DOESN'T have fire resistance after level.... 5? You'll need a way to make your attacks do something to those resistant or immune to fire.

Plus, all other abilities except Fire Bolts are standard or full round actions... No swift or immidiate actions are used at all, meaning much less things to do each round.

It doesn't need a way to bypass fire resistance, it gets it for free at level 3. Ignores first 5 points of fire resistance, and guarantees that no more than 1/2 damage can be ignored by fire resistance or immunity.

But still, we have to consider that pure damage (most) often isn't the best way of spending combats...

Look at the barbarian, as an example... A charger barbarian can autokill about anything it can charge starting at about level 6 or something... Still the barbarian isn't very overpowered...

1. Firemage gets an at will save or suck with a will save at level 6. That means that he can cast confusion before the Wizard, and he can do it all day long.

2. At 14th or 15th level it can stand on top of a hill and blind or destroy entire cities or armies. That is in the 9th level or epic spell categories. Combined with its teleport without error to anywhere there is a fire, the FireMage could credibly destroy every city on a continent within a matter of hours, then go back to pick through the ashes for fireproof loot. That is broken in a special, your campaign just ended kind of way.

3. I regard the test to see if something is Balanced as "If option x is in play, would there be any reason to play y or z"
It is without any question better than Warlock, Warmage, or Dragonfire Adapt in their area of specialty. A tier 1 or well built tier 2 can beat it in an anything goes optimization fest game, but even they will be hopelessly outclassed without their best tricks in play.

Edit: And it is even better when played in Gestalt, as the OP was planning. Consider that it functions this way with 0 feat investment. It has one stat that it uses, Charisma, and even that is only used for Save DCs and a little bonus damage. It could easily be played with 10 cha. That means that the Gestalt character can focus all of its resources on the other side of the build.

[Alastar]

Fire Mage maxes at level 15.

So it's 7d6-15d6 vs 10d6
meh

You forgot:
Usable on multiple attacks
Sa= yes
Fb= no
Weapon Damage Bonus
Sa= yes
Fb= no

Also with Weapon Crystals those immunities no longer matter.

Fire bolt is usable on multiple attacks, and it does better damage.

And weapon damage is piss poor for rogues, going around the realm of 1d6+enhancement+strenght.

Oh, i forgot, the fire mage also adds his charisma to the damage of those bolts.

Heck, with the current firebolt, you could reasonably get two weapon fighting and rapid shot, just for the lolz, and shoot around 6-7 firebolts that deal 15d6 every round.  And i fail to see where it is written that it caps out at level 15, the class just stops at 15, but a reasonable progression can be done.  The damage is 1d6 per level.

Fire Bolts (Sp): A fire mage can throw bolts of fire as an attack action. A fire bolt travels out to short range, and inflicts 1d6 of fire damage per level. A fire bolt strikes its target with a ranged touch attack.

[Paradox]

Fire bolt is usable on multiple attacks, and it does better damage.

I don't think so, but I may be wrong on what attack actions are. Link or refesh my memory?

And weapon damage is piss poor for rogues, going around the realm of 1d6+enhancement+strenght.

Not to mention all the sexy critness. and even if it was a measly +10 damage, that's about as much as a 2d6

Oh, i forgot, the fire mage also adds his charisma to the damage of those bolts.

Which might get a +6 in normal conditions.

Heck, with the current firebolt, you could reasonably get two weapon fighting and rapid shot, just for the lolz, and shoot around 6-7 firebolts that deal 15d6 every round.  And i fail to see where it is written that it caps out at level 15, the class just stops at 15, but a reasonable progression can be done.  The damage is 1d6 per level.

The fact that the table ends at 15. There is a reason why it's limited to 15. Also, I'm not sure on the multiple fireblasts per turn.

[bearsarebrown]

An attack option is an attack. Like part of your 4 in a full round.

and +10 is more like 3d6, just saying.

And, you know, they are ranged touch attacks!