Author Topic: Divine Oracle Lyrist?  (Read 1567 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

woodenbandman

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2188
    • Email
Divine Oracle Lyrist?
« on: August 18, 2009, 07:21:02 PM »
Is it possible to qualify for Fochlucan Lyrist using the Divine Oracle PrC? It advances spellcasting, and its 2nd level ability says in the text that it's a form of evasion. Has anyone given thought to this?

Bard1/Druid4/Divine Oracle5/Fochlucan lyrist 10? Hell, you could toss Sublime Chord in there, too. Or Ur-Priest. Bard 5/Ur-Priest3/Divine Oracle2/Sublime Chord +2/Fochlucan Lyrist 8. Gets all the good stuff. Of course, it's a bit late. I'd probably go for the other one. 1 caster level lost isn't so hard. A good compromise would be Bard1/Druid4/Divine Oracle5/Sublime Chord2/Fochlucan Lyrist 8. Nice double nines while maintaining most of your druid casting.

pfooti

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
  • Pants are for Suckers
    • /castrandom - even we don't know what it's about
    • Email
Re: Divine Oracle Lyrist?
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2009, 07:37:38 PM »
There was a discussion of that at FailMax, a long time ago, IIRC. Hinges on the DM's interpretation, of course. The Fochlucan Lyrist has some threads and handbooks devoted to it and various alternative entry routes (getting taught the Druidic language somehow, rings of evasion, and so on). Too bad it's down for the time being. I've no clue why they can't leave the old boards up while they're working on the new ones.

kurashu

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 719
  • K?
    • Androgynous Moose Hippy
    • Email
Re: Divine Oracle Lyrist?
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2009, 07:39:26 PM »
Yeah. I downloaded an old Fochlucan Lyrist thread that talked about Sublime Chord 2 + Ur Priest 2 + Divine Oracle 2 -> Fochlucan Lyrist and basically torturing a druid into teaching your Druidic. Or something like that, it's a bit of DM Fiat but not a stretch to allow it.

I'll find it and post it if I can.

Edit: Found it.

Quote
Fochlucan Lyrist Builds

Rogue 2/Bard 6/PrC 1/Ur-Priest 1/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 9

HD 6+1d8+1d4+17d6 = 72.5 avg., +14 BAB, saves +7/+14/+17, 138 + 23 x Int skill points (assuming Int 8 or better).

10th-level sublime chord casting (caster level 19), 9th-level bardic casting (caster level 19), 10th-level ur-priest casting (by RAW, caster level 29?; as a DM, I would give this character caster level 19), 15th-level bardic music, 16th-level bardic knowledge, evasion, trapfinding, level 1 PrC ability.

The PrC can be any prestige class that advances both bard casting and has Fort favored; I've assumed it has a d4 hit die, 2 + Int skills, and only Will as another favored save, but you can do better. A popular choice for that class is mindbender (CA), which has the attributes I assumed; Dragon 311 has several other suitable prestige classes. Speak Language (Druidic) comes from suborning a druid at some point, which this character should have no ethical qualms about whatsoever.

One problem with all ur-sublime builds is the enormous number of skill ranks required. This build requires Bluff 6, Decipher Script 7 ranks, Diplomacy 7 ranks, Gather Information 7 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 13, Knowledge (nature) 7 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 5 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8, Listen 13, Perform (string instruments) 13 ranks, Profession (astrologer) 6, Sleight of Hand 7 ranks, Speak Language (Druidic), Spellcraft 8, for a total of 108 skill points if you can avoid buying anything cross-class. The build gets 76 base skill points in its first eight levels, meaning that a character with a decent Int bonus can manage to get all the skills in time (you don't need to have all 108 required ranks immediately on 9th level, but you need to make them by 11th).

This build has several more problems. Both ur-priest and sublime chord have good 2nd-level abilities (rebuke undead and song of arcane power, respectively), the acquisition of evasion is rather inefficient, and the need for a Fort favored prestige class to qualify for ur-priest is a hack.

Some possible improvements: use monk to get +3 Fort and evasion (or any class with Fort favored and a 2-level progression to evasion), which requires an alignment switch (from lawful evil to neutral evil); use initiate of the draconic mysteries for the same purpose, which requires more feats but fewer class levels and no alignment change; use spelldancer or divine oracle to get evasion; or do some juggling with other caster classes. Some of these improvements are better than others. In particular, monk causes skill problems and doesn't speed up your caster progression, initiate of the draconic mysteries and spelldancer both take too many feats when added to the requirements for ur-priest to allow you to get the class levels you need when you need them, and other caster classes aren't much faster relative to bard and don't give enough skills. If you can somehow swing the feat costs (with, for instance, flaws from UA), initiate of the draconic mysteries or spelldancer is probably best; if not, the following builds and small variations are the only practical ways to do it.

Bard 5/PrC 1/Ur-Priest 2/Divine Oracle 2/Sublime Chord 2/Fochlucan Lyrist 8

This build substitutes prescient sense for evasion and is tight on skill points. The same PrC trick is used to get +3 Fort for ur-priest as in the previous build. The divine oracle levels are used to increase bard casting so as to meet the 3rd-level spells requirements for sublime chord.

Human Paragon 3/Wizard 1/Fighter 1/Ur-Priest 2/Spelldancer 2/Virtuoso 1/Sublime Chord 2/Fochlucan Lyrist 8

This build uses the human paragon (UA) and fighter bonus feats to get six feats by 6th level, allowing it to make ur-priest's and spelldancer's requirements in time. It uses a virtuoso's bardic music to meet sublime chord's requirements and get bardic knowledge (which is dodgy, but hey). It requires an ungodly high Int to make all the skill requirements.

I don't know who posted it though.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 07:47:36 PM by kurashu »

KellKheraptis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2668
  • What's the matter? I thought you had me...
    • Email
Re: Divine Oracle Lyrist?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2009, 08:33:29 PM »
My favorite FL build is Cloistered Cleric of Mystra 3/Combat Feat Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 2/Arcane Hierophant 2/Spelldancer 2/FocLyr 10, using Initiate of Mystra to make those sexy double 9's ignore AMF and keep 16 (fractional) BAB.
BG's Resident Black Hatter
The Mango List Reborn!
My Warmage Trickery (coming soon!)
My PrC Pally Trickery (coming soon!)
The D&D Archive
-Work in progress!