Fixing Conditions in 3.5

[dither]

So, I've got nothing against the Let's Design a Non-Vancian Casting System and I recommend it heartily to anyone; it's shaping up fantastically. I presented some ideas that got shot down but in all fairness to those involved, my ideas and ambitions really were beyond the scope of the casting system. So, I've created a new topic for them to get some advice and some opinions.

The Problem: Conditions, or "Status Effects" in D&D are too complicated for their own good

The Proposed Solution: Change portions of the system from the ground up

...

8/18/2009
I haven't finished moving most of my ideas here from the original thread yet, so please bear with me. If some of this seems like it's out of left field, that's okay, it's still missing the explanations and the "important" stuff. 


DYING AND DEATH
No one likes to die, especially not when you've invested a lot in a character. Death is a necessary evil, however, as it helps drive some of the story. Regretfully, at times, too much of the story. Death symbolically results the "ultimate failure" of a character (or in some cultures, failing to die in battle is actually worse) and actually represents one of the more unrealistic aspects of D&D. People (unfortunately) survived battles all the time; often they would succumb to their wounds days, weeks, or even years after receiving them.

Admittedly, this isn't always as exciting as putting your life on the line and coming up short in dramatic fashion, but how anticlimactic is it when you've also got a whiny player or a wussy DM who isn't willing to let go of a character? Death should be something that the players (and DM) have far more control over.

An important note is that "bloodied," "dying," and "death" function exactly as described here, with no need to reference any other material. There is no "takes damage when performing strenuous actions" malarkey. This is it, folks.


-- bloodied --
(less then 50% total hp)
(Critical hits automatically confirm?)

-- disabled --
(reduced to 0 hp or less)
Partial actions only

-- dying --
(sustain a "critical hit" while disabled)
Mental actions only


DISTRACTION
Where "dying and death" represent a character's bodily functions and overall physical fitness, the Distraction condition track represents a character's ability to perceive the world around them and how that information is transmitted to their nervous center (or supernatural decision-making center). Nothing is above distraction, not oozes, not constructs, not undead. Now, critters might not be affected by certain methods of causing distraction. For example, undead might be more easily distracted by a cleric's "holy power" and animals might be more easily distracted by a druid's "call of the wild."

Distraction and its "worse" stages are NOT a "relative" condition. When a creature is "distracted" is is considered "distracted" towards everyone and everything -- it's vulnerable. A character or creature may be distracted when badly wounded or crippled, taking ongoing damage, dazzled, blinded, or deafened such as when fascinated by an illusion, or other similar effects.

Similar to how "dying and death" supersedes any preexisting death-based conditions in 3.5, "distraction" precludes any and all conditions related to perception and distraction, such as flat-footed, surprised, dazzled, blindness, light sensitivity, deafness, etc. Plus, a spellcaster who is casting in a storm, casting while riding a horse, casting while on fire, or any other for of distraction that forces a Concentration check normally (even casting spells while impeded by wearing armor) are now "Distracted" instead of anything else. Climbing, balancing, running, or other actions that might cause a loss of Dexterity to AC now cause distraction instead.


-- distracted --
Loses DEX/WIS/insight or other "sensory" bonuses (whether to attack, AC, or otherwise).
Fails Listen and Spot checks to notice things or else takes a substantial penalty (like -10 or something).

-- disoriented --
In addition to above, character's action have a 20% chance of failing (attacks and skills, mostly).

-- confused --
In addition to the basic effect, character's actions have an additional +20% chance of failing (40% total).


I have one more condition track in mind that I haven't developed yet, which specifically represents mental conditions.

[dither]

saved in case I need another post for something

[RobbyPants]

If we're going to track Bloodied in this system, I'd actually like to see a minor penalty associated with it.  It doesn't have to be huge, but something like -2 to hit (and maybe a few other things) would be nice.  I'd like this to hurt the creature's offensive capabilities only.  In other words, I don't want it to be easier for you do die once bloodied.

My reasoning for this is because in D&D (and so many other games), so long as you have 1 HP, you're good to go.  This, of course, encourages wolf pack tactics.  Why spread your attacks on multiple opponents when you can bring one down quickly?  If you spread your attacks but still leave everyone standing (albiet injured), then they still have the same offensive capabilities.  You haven't gained anything other than some HP attrition.

____

Another big point: be very wary of scaling conditions.  I always thought the whole Shaken -> Frightened -> Panicked track was cool, but it leads to some other problems.  You can quickly escelate a few low-level powers into a single higher-level power.  If a group is designed around this, it can be done in less than a round.

___

I'm not sure if this is the thread for it or not, but I think when designing what classes (or characters in general) can do, we should decide what "level-appropriate" powers are, to make sure everyone is on the same page.  Keeping conditions in mind is integral to this.  So, low level effects might Dazzle, but it should take a higher level effect to Blind.

[dither]

If we're going to track Bloodied in this system, I'd actually like to see a minor penalty associated with it.  It doesn't have to be huge, but something like -2 to hit (and maybe a few other things) would be nice.  I'd like this to hurt the creature's offensive capabilities only.  In other words, I don't want it to be easier for you do die once bloodied.

I imagine that rather than having specific penalties associated with it, being "bloodied" actually makes you vulnerable to certain class features, feats, or other character abilities. For example (and this is only intended as an example), once you're bloodied, critical hits might automatically confirm or something scary like that.

My reasoning for this is because in D&D, so long as you have 1 HP, you're good to go. You haven't gained anything other than some HP attrition.

This is the reason for the disabled condition. Essentially, you really are peachy keen until you run out of hit points. The point is less about "having 1 hit point and being ready to rock," but rather, having that 1, solitary hit point is the difference between fighting at full power and fighting at half power. If you ignore the "bloodied" condition (really more of a marker, for the time being, than an actual condition) then you have a character who is either hale & hearty or limping. If he's limping, then he's just a "natural 20 away" from being put down and in a world of hurt. The true benefit of hit points is that they "raise the ceiling" before you start taking penalties on actions.

Another big point: be very wary of scaling conditions.  I always thought the whole Shaken -> Frightened -> Panicked track was cool, but it leads to some other problems.  You can quickly escelate a few low-level powers into a single higher-level power.  If a group is designed around this, it can be done in less than a round.

Duly noted. From the beginning, I've got in mind that you normally can't extend conditions on level-appropriate enemies beyond the first 2 "rungs" and that higher-level opponents generally can't be affected by anything more than the first run (the exception is death, which comes for everyone and is based on hit points, anyway).

Obviously, since the number of conditions has been drastically reduced, it will be (proportionately) more difficult to inflict them.

I'm not sure if this is the thread for it or not, but I think when designing what classes (or characters in general) can do, we should decide what "level-appropriate" powers are, to make sure everyone is on the same page.  Keeping conditions in mind is integral to this.  So, low level effects might Dazzle, but it should take a higher level effect to Blind.

That's where this is headed, hopefully.

[RobbyPants]

So, you're thinking of HP similar to a VP/WP model then?  Basically, if you have HP, you haven't "truely" taken real injury?  I guess I've never been fond of that myself, but that's just for subjective reasons.

Would you consider using something similar to the VP/WP system?  It could actually work quite well in that regard.  Really, the biggest problem I had with the system was how to handle crits.

[dither]

So, you're thinking of HP similar to a VP/WP model then?  Basically, if you have HP, you haven't "truely" taken real injury?  I guess I've never been fond of that myself, but that's just for subjective reasons.

Would you consider using something similar to the VP/WP system?  It could actually work quite well in that regard.  Really, the biggest problem I had with the system was how to handle crits.

I tend to think hit points are "complicated." Sometimes hit points reflect a character's ability to dodge, sometimes to parry, and sometimes to shrug off an attack. If all this is true, then why is Armor Class needed? Armor Class reflects an ability to turn a damaging attack into a glancing blow. Why is Damage Reduction needed? Damage Reduction represents a character's ability to "soak" an otherwise damaging attack. I remember reading somewhere that the concepts of Armor Class and Damage Reduction should be mutually exclusive because they represent the same thing.

I don't know exactly where I stand on that concept but I do know that hit points are complicated.

I would consider using something similar to the Vitality/Wound Point system as long as it doesn't involve rolling dice to determine if the character lives or dies. I don't believe in "rolling to stabilize" and I don't believe in Fortitude "death saves." I think there should be a conscious choice made on the part of a player in the game to end the life of a character. It should usually be the DM (with the player's consent), though it might be another player.

edit: Also, I think hit points are enough. I don't like point systems (leas of all "point-buy methods of character creation) and they only result in egregious bookkeeping in my opinion.