Author Topic: Tier System For Classes (Repost)  (Read 452763 times)

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Littha

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Re: Tier System For Classes (Repost)
« Reply #1000 on: October 06, 2011, 11:19:16 PM »
Do you see the issue with this?  You're getting hung up on "absolutely" and then finding a situation where it doesn't work, in order to go "a-ha!  Gotcha!"  There are going to be corner-case situations that Wizards, Druids, Clerics, and all the other Tier 1s can't handle, or can't handle well.  Do you think they should all be downgraded because it's possible to name those situations?

Wizards, clerics, archivists and artificers can really do everything. They can have the right spell for any situation. If they can't do something, it means that nobody can.
(Clearly, with everything I'm saying that they can solve any problem. I'm not looking for strange situations that will never happen in game here.)

While the druid simply can't. He's strong in combat and has many options out of combat, but that's it. I fail to see how Pun-Pun addresses this assertion.
The difference between the druid and the Tier 1 classes is huger than the difference between the druid and the Tier 2 classes.

If you don't agree, please do tell me what problems a druid playing in a group composed of a binder, a wu jen and a sorcerer brings. They all seem more or less on the same level to me.
While the difference is huge if you bring a druid in a group composed of a wizard, an archivist and an artificer. The other characters can literaly do anything. The druid simply can't: he can do his job well, but he is the only one who is depedent on the others.

Wizards have no resurrection or healing magic. Thus they cannot solve every problem and your argument falls apart.
Clerics have a lack of decent blasting spells.

On a more serious note, the druid fits in fine with a tier 2 party because tier 2 is as strong as tier 1 but lacks the versatility not because of a lack of power. Said druid can completely repick his spells every day and can go from being a bear to a mouse several times a day too.

One day he could decide he wanted to be a blaster and with a decent choice of spells do about as well as a sorcerer, next day he could decide he wants to melee and prepares buff spells for himself and uses wildshape for some damage. Day after that he plays party support and heals and buffs everyone else. Sorcerer is still stuck blasting.
Wizards have Wish. Your argument is invalid.

Blasting is subpar so the point is moot.

Admittedly 10 levels later a wizard can bring someone back to life...

dark_samuari

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Re: Tier System For Classes (Repost)
« Reply #1001 on: October 07, 2011, 12:58:35 AM »
The basic point is: druids can't do anything. That's huge for a Tier 1 class. All the other Tier 1 classes have the option to do anything they want.

Has someone beaten the Iron Siege yet?

Because if not I think that might qualify as something to nullify your affection for throwing out hard absolutes.

JaronK

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Re: Tier System For Classes (Repost)
« Reply #1002 on: October 07, 2011, 01:05:49 AM »
IIRC Iron Siege is epic play, isn't it?  And besides, that's using magical defenses vs magical defenses, so the classes themselves can do it, but it's the chess game of abilities that makes it hard.

JaronK

dark_samuari

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Re: Tier System For Classes (Repost)
« Reply #1003 on: October 07, 2011, 01:17:04 AM »
I was hoping to show the idiocy and hubris in making such a claim of absolutes.

Although my own example falls apart the moment high-end TO comes into play so...

awaken DM golem

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Re: Tier System For Classes (Repost)
« Reply #1004 on: October 07, 2011, 01:17:28 AM »
You know what's more powerful than Pun-pun ?


[spoiler]The
Official
Thread
Locker.
 :o

"we" had to do this super complicated Ritual to Summon said Thread Locker.
 ;)[/spoiler]


Like Tier (-1) ...  :D

Prime32

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Re: Tier System For Classes (Repost)
« Reply #1005 on: October 07, 2011, 11:48:18 PM »
You know what's more powerful than Pun-pun ?


[spoiler]The
Official
Thread
Locker.
 :o

"we" had to do this super complicated Ritual to Summon said Thread Locker.
 ;)[/spoiler]


Like Tier (-1) ...  :D
Urgh, can I go back to R'lyeh now? *yawns*
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]