Author Topic: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting  (Read 20414 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2009, 03:41:19 AM »
Like I've said before, make your stronghold your item familiar.  If you're really worried, have a warforged bard follower on standby with a lyre of building (which allows you to easily (DC 18 perform check) qualify for the free labor/ make the stronghold yourself discount) to make it completely invincible.  Problem solved.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

JaronK

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4039
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2009, 03:55:05 AM »
Don't you have to be near the Item Familiar to use it?

Personally, I'm a fan of Dwarvencraft Blue Ice Gnomish Quickrazors as Item Familiars.  That's partly because I like playing Factotums and the weapon is great for that, but also because you Sleight of Hand the weapon back into your sleeve with every attack, so it can only be targetting mid attack (if you see a close opponent holding an action, he might be planning to sunder it... so step back and shoot him).  Blue Ice assures that spells like Repel Wood and the like won't matter... there's spells to target stone, metal, and wood, but none that target ice, and Blue Ice doesn't melt.  And once you cast Augment Object or Hardness on it, sundering the weapon becomes an exercise in futility.

I do REALLY like having a portal to your stronghold inside a portable hole though.  Being able to retreat into your stronghold whenever you need is just so very handy.  Spend some of that Landlord money on spell turrets that spam heals and buffs, leave reserve troops back there, and so on.  Also, building a castle is just fun.  I personally prefer taking over some rediculous castle the DM has created and using that.  They usually have all kinds of implanted magic that you're not allowed to steal... so once you take it over, you have things like indestructable doors and crazy teleporters and such.  That'll teach the DM to use fiat when building his dungeons!

JaronK

Bastian

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 540
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2009, 05:27:43 AM »
Looking through Words of Creation, I see nothing about hardness.  Where are you getting that?
JaronK
I must have been confusing it with Dark Speech which allows you to cut an item's hardness in half. I lost my copy of BoED so any help with things from it is appreciated.

Edit: Removed.

JaronK

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4039
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2009, 05:43:57 AM »
Indeed, looking over Words of Creation they instead give +1 CL for free when item crafting, and a +4 to craft checks.

Is it just me or is that spell clock thing really badly written?  It seems like the cost is totally unchanged by the spell it's casting, and there's nothing indicating what the time  delay should be.  What stops you from making one that casts a useful spell once per round?  Even something as simple as Divine Insight once per round on whoever's in front of it would be insanely useful. 

JaronK

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2009, 03:52:21 PM »
Don't you have to be near the Item Familiar to use it?
It's not like your castle isn't mobile.  IIRC, though, you only lose your benefits if you're away for [character level] days.  Well, it also can't emphatically communicate with you if you aren't holding it, but other than that...
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2009, 02:22:48 PM »
I have been waiting so long for someone to do this. You rock. Have a cookie. That said:

1 In completel scoundrel I saw no discounts with the Seven Ravens Clan and WotC has no listed 'guildmaster' feat... (but you can get 95% still)
2 I am not sure the kaorti part works either: "This method applies only to the creation of kaorti ribbon weapons, and it is not a replacement method for normal magic item creation."
3 The Extract Demon essence feat says nothing at all about GP. It is purely for XP...
              This puts your total at around 12.119625% gold since these were the heavies reductions

I don't think paying XP is actually much of a problem (unless your DM won't let you hold back XP), but listing a total would be good. A total for the time would also help, but outside of getting someone else to do it you probably will still end up spending a non-trivial amount of time. As for the gold part, (though it is RAW) custom item rules get dangerous quickly.

Where would you find a colossal elemental (templates would make this easier...) The only base size I found was something like this. I don't feel like reading the 2 pages of text about the binding. What exactly is required to get and use an elemental for this discount? I saw that a second person will be needed. It even gave limiting descriptions on the size of the kyber shard. Do these also have a cost? Is the Bind Elemental feat required?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 05:09:30 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

Akalsaris

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1143
    • Email
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2009, 03:19:12 PM »
Hey, nice mini-guide!  I especially like the mention of the SBG - the Landlord feat is a lot of fun to play with :)

Bastian

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 540
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2009, 03:53:19 PM »
This is what I get for losing my books and using second hand accounts of sources.

I have been waiting so long for someone to do this. You rock. Have a cookie. That said:

1 In completel scoundrel I saw no discounts with the Seven Ravens Clan and WotC has no listed 'guildmaster' feat... (but you can get 95% still)
I clearly remember there being a 10% discount listed somewhere in the flavor text that went all the way up to 50% depending on how high you were in the guild. I checked the list and you're right that it doesn't seem to be listed. Which is really odd since I seem to remember it was in the DMG 2 and I have a source that agrees with me.
Quote
2 I am not sure the kaorti part works either: "This method applies only to the creation of kaorti ribbon weapons, and it is not a replacement method for normal magic item creation."
This one I know I'm right because "Magic weapons, armor, rings, staff, rods, and all other magic items can be crafted from kaorti resin." You're quote seems to be referring to a different part of the article than the discount, especially since the discount always refers to creating an item and never refers to it as a weapon.
Quote
3 The Extract Demon essence feat says nothing at all about GP. It is purely for XP...
This one you are definitely right on. I don't know what my first source for this was thinking.

Quote
This puts your total at around 12.119625% gold since these were the heavies reductions

I don't think paying XP is actually much of a problem (unless your DM won't let you hold back XP), but listing a total would be good. A total for the time would also help, but outside of getting someone else to do it you probably will still end up spending a non-trivial amount of time. As for the gold part, (though it is RAW) custom item rules get dangerous quickly.
I didn't add them simply because I thought they were less important. The XP is less important simply because of the trick I provided and the time is less important because of the Dedicated Wright. However, I will add them when I get back from my trip in a week or two.

Quote
Where would you find a colossal elemental (templates would make this easier...) The only base size I found was something like this. I don't feel like reading the 2 pages of text about the binding. What exactly is required to get and use an elemental for this discount? I saw that a second person will be needed. It even gave limiting descriptions on the size of the kyber shard. Do these also have a cost? Is the Bind Elemental feat required?
Check here to find what you are looking for.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 03:59:36 PM by Bastian »

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2009, 09:56:39 AM »
I clearly remember there being a 10% discount listed somewhere in the flavor text that went all the way up to 50% depending on how high you were in the guild. I checked the list and you're right that it doesn't seem to be listed. Which is really odd since I seem to remember it was in the DMG 2 and I have a source that agrees with me.
Okay well get cracking and find it! :) Halfing our current percentage is still really useful.

About the koarti resin... can you explain where you get your 13% from? The relevant parts I found were: "to fashion a truly permanent item; this process costs the kaorti experience points equal to 50% of the market price for a masterwork item" ::wince::
and
"a kaorti can reduce the cost to make a magic item by 5 gp for every XP spent, to a minimum of 35% of the normal cost (and it must spend at least 1/5th the base item's cost in XP)" which again doesn't look good...

Quote
Where would you find a colossal elemental (templates would make this easier...) The only base size I found was something like this. I don't feel like reading the 2 pages of text about the binding. What exactly is required to get and use an elemental for this discount? I saw that a second person will be needed. It even gave limiting descriptions on the size of the kyber shard. Do these also have a cost? Is the Bind Elemental feat required?
I checked the link (I read it on 339 when it was first posted) but it wasn't initially that good. Having reread it the elemental binding mechanics aren't well spelled out (and neither is the text, imo). But yes I knew about the elemental creature template. There are easier ways to do that though.

But if you are going the template route would it be possible to get your elemental to colossal+ by temporarily polymorphing it into a humanoid then casting enlarge person. Dismiss, then bind before the spell is up. 80% just went to 75%
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

Bastian

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 540
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2009, 12:07:29 PM »
About the koarti resin... can you explain where you get your 13% from? The relevant parts I found were: "to fashion a truly permanent item; this process costs the kaorti experience points equal to 50% of the market price for a masterwork item" ::wince::
and
"a kaorti can reduce the cost to make a magic item by 5 gp for every XP spent, to a minimum of 35% of the normal cost (and it must spend at least 1/5th the base item's cost in XP)" which again doesn't look good...
I forgot to include the first bit since that seems to only apply to weapons and armor. As for the 13% measure, 65% divided by 5 gets you 13%. The xp addtition isn't too bad if you apply it last.

Quote
But if you are going the template route would it be possible to get your elemental to colossal+ by temporarily polymorphing it into a humanoid then casting enlarge person. Dismiss, then bind before the spell is up. 80% just went to 75%
Good idea I'll update it when I get back from vacation and have more time than the mandatory log off time of this hotel computer.

PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2009, 12:06:10 PM »
So, uh are you back from vacation yet? I still want more kaorti explanation.

Edit: Looks like you will have to permanency that Enlarge Person (thanks Bastian)
Also it says "1/5th the base item's cost in XP" so its 20% of the whole thing. Ouch. But hey, have your cohort do it. Or if that's not available 2 other Kaorti can split that large XP cost with you! Remember experience is a river.

I also found in the OA update Blood Artisan ancestor feat for wonderous or armor and arms only crafting 75% gold cost but makes the items randomly cursed (usually not too bad but has some bad possibilities). Not included in the calculation below, but food for thought.

Also a faustian pact (um 3 actually, but the non-binding kind) can give you +72.8% of your wealth for a ECL20 total of 1,313,280gp... now if you wait to craft and don't care about XP -> 1313280/.04465125 = 29,411,942.55gp. Thats almost 39x WBL, or 28 and a half million more gold in crafted items!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 05:22:19 AM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

dither

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1413
  • Breaking the ninth wall
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2009, 03:09:55 PM »
Just thought I'd throw this in here because lots of people seem to forget it:

You can scribe up to six spells on a single, "major" scroll. (The link is to d20srd.org but the same table can be found in the DMG, of course.)

This drastically reduces the amount of time needed to scribe the scrolls needed for adventuring.
"Stuck between a rogue and a bard place."

vanity
Read my webcomic!
Dither's Amazing Changing Avatars

[spoiler]
Quote from: Shadowhunter
Quote from: Flay Crimsonwind
"Vegeta! What does the scouter say about Dither's power level?"
It's over nine thousand!

Quote from: Bauglir
Quote from: Anklebite
Quote from: dither
Well blow me down! :P
A SECTION OF THE CAVERN HAS COLLAPSED!
dither, Miner, has died after colliding with an obstacle!
[/spoiler]

Bastian

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 540
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2009, 06:26:01 PM »
So, uh are you back from vacation yet? I still want more kaorti explanation.
What more is necessary?

By the way I'm too lazy to really work on this so if someone wants to take it over they can. When my attention span causes me to focus on DnD again I will expand this.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 04:07:48 PM by Bastian »

Bastian

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 540
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2009, 04:29:09 PM »
But if you are going the template route would it be possible to get your elemental to colossal+ by temporarily polymorphing it into a humanoid then casting enlarge person. Dismiss, then bind before the spell is up. 80% just went to 75%
You can't do that because effects acting on the elemental to be bound run out while its bound, iirc. Thats why non permanent methods of summoning don't work for it either.

reganok

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 31
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2010, 02:43:17 PM »
Hammer of the Magesmith (A&EG 109) reduces the cost of the raw materials you need by 5%. Hand one to your Dedicated Wright.

KellKheraptis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2668
  • What's the matter? I thought you had me...
    • Email
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2010, 04:12:33 PM »
Here's a wicked idea for those of us building Mecha (aka Warforged Artificers)...strongholds have no set size limitations.  I.e. make the stronghold sized for a termite (Fine size in other words) and integrate it as a warforged component, being nothing but magical stronghold spaces.  And if you wanna go all out...include the termi-...nanites!

EDIT : Oh yeah, in addition to becoming a battle cruiser with mini-space marines, all those nice enhancements from the magical castle component can all be paid for with the Landlord feat :D
BG's Resident Black Hatter
The Mango List Reborn!
My Warmage Trickery (coming soon!)
My PrC Pally Trickery (coming soon!)
The D&D Archive
-Work in progress!

skydragonknight

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3297
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2010, 04:47:53 PM »
Philospohical Nitpic:
When I seriously think to myself "how much gold would it take to make Gurran Lagann", am I still playing D&D?
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Agita

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5465
  • SFT is mai waifu.
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2010, 04:50:01 PM »
Philospohical Nitpic:
When I seriously think to myself "how much gold would it take to make Tengen Toppa Gurran Lagann", am I still playing D&D?
FTFY. You're thinking to small. :D

And isn't there an even bigger one made of fire now?
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

Agita's Awesome Poster Compilation
Lycanthromancer's Awesome Poster Compilation

skydragonknight

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3297
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2010, 04:53:51 PM »
Not sure. All I know is that it takes a lot of Adamantine to make a robot the (nearly) size of a galaxy.  :lol
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Preliminary Guide to Cheap Item Crafting
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2010, 04:54:56 PM »
And isn't there an even bigger one made of fire now?
Made of fire?  :rollseyes And is it also on fire? And is the fire it is made of also burning?
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]