Author Topic: The Duskblade's Handbook  (Read 360726 times)

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BenTheJester

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #60 on: December 24, 2008, 02:31:45 AM »
Can you apply metamagic feats to arcane channeling, or do you need the metamagic to be "sudden"?

Because, even if incredibly expensive, flash frost/blistering spell+energy admixture[cold/fire]+practical metamagic would be a nice combo for channeling shocking grasp(5d6 electricity + 5d6 cold/fire + 10(or is it only 2) + icing the floor/-2 attack rolls) seems quite nice to me, although it might not be worth the 4 feats(counting energy sub).

If not, would Accelerate Metamagic allow it to work?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 02:45:35 AM by BenTheJester »

PhaedrusXY

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #61 on: December 24, 2008, 03:51:21 AM »
I'm pretty sure you'd need Rapid Metamagic, or some other way to speed up your casting time for metamagic spells.
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BenTheJester

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #62 on: December 29, 2008, 01:49:40 AM »
This was posted in the original handbook, and I hate searching for it everytime, so I hope nobody minds that I reposted it here

Quote from: Joshua Randall
I was perusing the Spell Compendium last night looking at Domain spell lists that might be useful to the duskblade. My findings are below -- I don't claim this to be comprehensive, just my opinion.

* = SpC spell
[comments] = my thoughts on that domain

SpC Domains

Celerity - 1. expeditious retreat, 2. cat's grace, 3. blur, 4. haste, 5. tree stride [overlaps duskblade list at low levels, but blur and haste are good buffs]

Competition - 1. remove feat, 2. zeal*, 3. prayer, 4. divine power, 5. righteous might [zeal is good for melee duskblades to avoid AOOs; div pow _and_ righteous might is almost too good to be true]

Force - 1. mage armor, 2. magic missile, 3. blast of force*, 4. resilient sphere, 5. wall of force [force effects are always useful]

Glory - 1. disrupt undead, 2. bless weapon, 3. searing light, 4. holy smite, 5. holy sword [bless weapon and holy sword are outstanding weapon buffs]

Hatred - 1. doom, 2. scare, 3. bestow curse, 4. rage, 5. righteous might [bestow curse is Touch; r. might is good, others not so good]

Mysticism - 1. divine favor, 2. spiritual weapon, 3. lesser visage of the deity*, 4. weapon of the deity*, 5. righteous might [a variety of buffs including r. might]

Purification - 1. nimbus of light*, 2. deific vengeance*, 3. recitation*, 4. castigate*, 5. dance of the unicorn* [for duskblades with high enough Wis to have decent DCs; also, recitation is a very good buff]

Slime - 1. grease, 2. Melf's acid arrow, 3. poison, 4. rusting grasp, 5. Evard's black tentacles [poison and rusting grasp are both Touch; grease and black tentacles are good battlefield control spells]

Suffering - 1. bane, 2. bear's endurance, 3. bestow curse, 4. enervation, 5. feeblemind [bestow curse is Touch; extra slots for bear's end and enervation are never bad; and feelbemind is excellent against opposing spellcasters]

Time - 1. true strike, 2. gentle repose, 3. haste, 4. freedom of movement, 5. permanency [gentle repose is lame, and perm is expensive; but haste at 3rd and free/move at 4th are excellent]

Wrath - 1. rhino's rush*, 2. bull's strength, 3. rage, 4. shout, 5. righteous might [rhino's rush synergizes well with charging duskblades (perhaps also using Leap Attack); r. might needs no justification]

The following are some of the special Domains that normally require a cleric to give up both Domain "slots" in order to take -- because you get two spells at every level. Accessing these with Arcane Disciple is dubious, but if your DM allows it, great! I'll only list the best spells per domain.

Abyss - 5. slay living [Touch]
Baator - 5. spell resistance [good buff]
Celestia - 4. divine power, greater magic weapon; 5. righteous might [like Competition, but more broken]
Elysium - 4. holy smite, 5. dispel evil [dispel evil is Touch]
Hades - 4. contagion, unholy blight; 5. dispel good [contagion and dispel good are Touch]


Finally, some Player's Handbook domains:

Death - 1. cause fear, 2. death knell, 3. animate dead, 4. death ward, 5. slay living [doesn't get good until 4th and 5th level]
Good - 1. protection from evil, 2. aid, 3. magic circle against evil, 4. holy smite, 5. dispel evil [useful buffs at 1st-2nd-3rd, good attack spells at 4th-5th]
Strength - 1. enlarge person, 2. bull's strength, 3. magic vestment, 4. spell immunity, 5. righteous might [the best PH domain to take]
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 01:53:24 AM by BenTheJester »

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2008, 04:01:05 PM »
I'm pretty sure you'd need Rapid Metamagic, or some other way to speed up your casting time for metamagic spells.
Arcane Preparation should work as well.
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BenTheJester

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2008, 07:58:12 PM »

Duskwyrm
Duskblade 13 / Wyrm Wizard 7
Needs:
  • Arcane Preparation, any Metamagic feat (and you'll use this one so make it something good)
Benefits:
  • Casts as an 18th level Duskblade, 5th level spells
  • Spell Research - pick 3 spells from any list to add to your spells known.  Ever wanted favor of the martyr, hound of doom or celerity?
  • Bonus to Knowledge Arcana
  • BAB 16
  • One free metamagic on a 2nd level spell, one free metamagic on a 4th level spell ... quicken, persistent, your choice.
Notes:
What gish doesn't like persistent spells?  Oh yeah, you can also burn any 3rd level spell or higher to cast dispel magic.  Funny thing is, you don't have to KNOW it ... and if you did, it would normally be a 4th level spell for you.


You can't get Persistent as your free metamagic, since it's a +6 metamagic and the class ability limits you to +4.

On the other hand a twinned + energy admixed Shocking Grasp can destroy cities.
Add a Maximize/Sudden Maximize and you've got yourself 120 additionnal damage per target with your full channeling.

ChristopherGroves

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2008, 10:20:48 PM »
Ah, good catch!

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2008, 08:48:05 AM »
Just add Easy Metamagic and Practical Metamagic ;)

Persistent Wraithstrike, here we come :D


As for Items, I believe there was an item called a Drakehelm or something like that (Dragons of Eberron of Dragons of Faerun IIRC) that can be quite useful to a Duskblade...


« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 08:49:55 AM by BowenSilverclaw »
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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BenTheJester

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2008, 04:09:14 PM »
Just add Easy Metamagic and Practical Metamagic ;)

Persistent Wraithstrike, here we come :D


As for Items, I believe there was an item called a Drakehelm or something like that (Dragons of Eberron of Dragons of Faerun IIRC) that can be quite useful to a Duskblade...




Isn't that a little heavy on feats for our poor friend the duskblade and his miserable 7 feats(3 of which HAVE to be Power attack, Knowledge devotion and Arcane Strike)? Add Arcane Preparation and Extend Spell+Persistent and your 2 suggested feats. You don't even have enough feat for that unless you are human or flaws are allowed. And the worst part is you probably won't even use these last 5 feats.


Even though Persistent Haste/Wraithstrike is appealing, I don't think it's worth it.


Is there a list of metamagic feats anywhere? I hate looking through all the books all the time.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 04:13:59 PM by BenTheJester »

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2008, 05:36:14 PM »
Just add Easy Metamagic and Practical Metamagic ;)

Persistent Wraithstrike, here we come :D


As for Items, I believe there was an item called a Drakehelm or something like that (Dragons of Eberron of Dragons of Faerun IIRC) that can be quite useful to a Duskblade...




Isn't that a little heavy on feats for our poor friend the duskblade and his miserable 7 feats(3 of which HAVE to be Power attack, Knowledge devotion and Arcane Strike)? Add Arcane Preparation and Extend Spell+Persistent and your 2 suggested feats. You don't even have enough feat for that unless you are human or flaws are allowed. And the worst part is you probably won't even use these last 5 feats.
True, it IS feat extensive, I admit that. But to be honest, I tend to use flaws for all my characters, also, this is for a very focused Duskblade ofcourse.
But yeah, your point is quite valid :)


Quote
Even though Persistent Haste/Wraithstrike is appealing, I don't think it's worth it.
I don't think Haste is Persistable, and it was more intended as a joke...
If Persisted Wraithstrike is allowed, you're probably better of playing a cheesy Wizard of sorts ;)

Quote
Is there a list of metamagic feats anywhere? I hate looking through all the books all the time.
Have you tried www.crystalkeep.com/d20 ?

Good luck, and thanks for the feedback,
Bowen
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Sunic_Flames

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2008, 06:08:24 PM »
Haste is Persistable, as long as the Swift version is the target and not the normal version.
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2008, 06:17:25 PM »
Point to SF :)

"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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ChristopherGroves

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #71 on: December 31, 2008, 02:33:19 PM »
It's a lower level too.  Same with Swift Flight, etc.

ChristopherGroves

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #72 on: December 31, 2008, 02:34:34 PM »


As for Items, I believe there was an item called a Drakehelm or something like that (Dragons of Eberron of Dragons of Faerun IIRC) that can be quite useful to a Duskblade...



http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2777.0

BenTheJester

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #73 on: January 04, 2009, 01:50:29 AM »
After a few weeks, I have built what seems to be a nice flying duskblade, I would appreciate criticism.
Since I'm not sure if the "Winged" template will be accepted(being 3.0), I also prepared an alternative, just in case.

Both builds have this in common:
Race: Silverbrow Human
Classes: Duskblade 13/Wyrm Wizard 7
Additionnal Spells learned with Wyrm Wizard: Shivering Touch, Haste, Wraithstrike

Flaws:
Inattentive(-4 spot and listen checks)
Shaky(-2 ranged attack rolls)


[spoiler="Duskwings"]
Winged Silverbrow Human, LA+2


Abilities(28 pts buy):
Str: 18(16+2 levels)
Dex: 16(12+4 template)
Con: 14
Int: 16(14+2 levels)
Wis: 10(8+2 template)
Cha: 10

Feats:
F   Maximize Spell
F   Reinforced Wings
R   Flyby
1   Power Attack
2   Combat Casting
3   Knowledge Devotion
6   Arcane Preparation
9   Arcane Strike
12   Twin Spell
15   Energy Substitution[Acid]
18   Energy Admixture

Free metamagics from Wyrm Wizard:
Twin Spell on Shocking Grasp
Energy Admixture on Shocking Grasp

**Note: I chose Silverbrow Human over human for flavor here, human would be slightly better.
**Note2: My dex is so high because I need 15 dex to get Good maneuverability, which I find very important for the ability to hover in the air.

[/spoiler]




[spoiler="Duskwings of the Dragon"]


Abilities(28 pts buy):
Str: 20(17+3 levels)
Dex: 10
Con: 12
Int: 15(14+1 level)
Wis: 10
Cha: 9

Feats:
F   Arcane Preparation
F   Maximize Spell
R   Draconic Wings
1   Power Attack
2   Combat Casting
3   Knowledge Devotion
6   Improved Draconic Wings
9   Arcane Strike
12   Flyby
15   Improved Flight
18   Twin Spell

Free metamagics from Wyrm Wizard:
Maximize Spell on Shocking Grasp
Twin Spell on Shocking Grasp
[/spoiler]

« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 02:44:30 PM by BenTheJester »

Skorpio

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2009, 11:26:08 AM »
Hi all,

What do you think of War MagePrestige Class in Dragonlance: Age of Mortals manual?

Its Battle Magic ability worths the loss of Hit Die and BAB?

I'm playing a Duskblade in Dragonlance campaign Key of Destiny, as an "Arcane Paladin", a Lawful Good fighter devoted to Solinari that use his magic for the Good, but he has only 8 on Charisma so he can't use the other War Mage ability called Arcane Aegis, another loss if I will pick this class.

Thank you

DimitriX

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Thanks pal
« Reply #75 on: January 17, 2009, 05:20:44 PM »
Thanks, pal. This is the greatest guide ever! Don't you think that Sudden Metamagic feats work well too? Plz continue with such great guides! It really helped me a lot. (You're from Greece, as well I see)
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ninjarabbit

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #76 on: January 17, 2009, 06:03:00 PM »
I'm not a fan of the sudden metamagic feats. I hate burning a feat for a once/day ability. Not to mention the fact that sudden empower and sudden maximize both require you to have another metamagic feat.

BenTheJester

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #77 on: January 17, 2009, 11:01:34 PM »
Not Sudden Empower

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #78 on: January 20, 2009, 09:06:41 AM »
Hi all,

What do you think of War MagePrestige Class in Dragonlance: Age of Mortals manual?

Its Battle Magic ability worths the loss of Hit Die and BAB?

I'm playing a Duskblade in Dragonlance campaign Key of Destiny, as an "Arcane Paladin", a Lawful Good fighter devoted to Solinari that use his magic for the Good, but he has only 8 on Charisma so he can't use the other War Mage ability called Arcane Aegis, another loss if I will pick this class.

Thank you

Ah, can i see that anywhere? I don't own any dragonlance books. But generally, as a rule of thumb, if you want to get a prestige class or multiclass, do that after attaining the 13th duskblade level.

Thanks, pal. This is the greatest guide ever! Don't you think that Sudden Metamagic feats work well too? Plz continue with such great guides! It really helped me a lot. (You're from Greece, as well I see)

Thank you ^-^
The sudden metamagic feats are generally seen as weak, because they are usable just once per day.
Dictum Mortuum's Handbooks: My personal character optimization blog.


Skorpio

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Re: The Duskblade's Handbook
« Reply #79 on: January 21, 2009, 07:17:17 AM »
Dictum Mortuum, I added the source book for Feats, if you want copy&paste and edit your page, I used a "Complete" book when feat is available in more books.



What to Look for:

So you are playing a duskblade. That means you have 7 available general feats to work with, not counting flaws or racial bonus feats. Combat casting is a bonus for you, even though it's not that important, unless you want to fulfill a requirement. That means you are looking for stand-alone feats or small feat-chains. With that in mind, try to avoid useless feats that are just used to get something better (an unrelated example is dodge and mobility for spring attack, while the resulting feat is nice, its requirements are below average) or feats that are used to switch your main fighting ability to dexterity, like two weapon fighting and its improved versions or weapon finesse. They are very good, but just not for this class. Good feat examples are power attack, knowledge devotion, arcane strike and obtain familiar.


General Feats

  • Arcane Disciple CD: A way to expand your spell list a little and enrich it with some touch spells to use with your arcane channeling.
  • Draconic Aura DM: Useful in many situations. If you choose the energy aura you get a bonus on your spells difficulty class. If you are of the dragonblood type the bonus is dependant on your level. It is a way to have normal DCs.
  • Extra Spell CAr: According to how your DM interprets this, it may let you choose a spell not from your spell list. Even if that isn't the case it still benefits you a lot, due to your small number of spells known.
  • Obtain Familiar CAr: Familiars get to deliver touch spells, which duskblades have a thing for and provide you with some bonuses. Besides that, familiars improve your skills through aid another, they can act as scouts and even advance your roleplaying possibilities if they talk. A feat for a companion is a great trade in my book.
  • Improved Familiar CW: Improves your normal familiar to something greater. Imps and coure eladrins are probably the best candidates. Your high BAB and hit points though make familiars of medium size (like small elementals, mephits or other improved familiars) and high strength a formidable fighting companion.
  • Practiced Spellcaster CAr: Mainly for multiclass duskblades. Hopefully you will follow my advice on single classed duskblades and you won't need this.
  • Versatile Spellcaster RDr: Since you already have a huge amount of spells per day, the cost is not big. In case you use cantrips to fuel 1st spells or 1st spells to fuel 2nd, you get 1-1 spell level ratio. Works especially great with rings of wizardry.
  • Knowledge Devotion CC: You have all knowledges as class skills and this feat actually connects your skills with your fighting capabilities. It's interesting and very useful. For example compare it with weapon focus or weapon specialization: just by expending a few skill points (5-6 really) you get +1 to hit with all weapons AND damage. You can then use your power attack and transform it to +3 damage with your two-handed weapon, essentially getting something better than both feats. And that is only if considering the least bonus you can get from the feat. It is a very good choice as a 3rd level feat.


Combat Feats

  • Arcane Strike CW: Duskblades with their huge number of spells per day can fuel arcane strike with little trouble. Also check this post on how arcane strike really works.
  • Battle Casting RW: Gain some dodge bonus if you cast a spell. Since you will be melee most times this helps. Also you get combat casting as a bonus feat.
  • Battle Caster CAr: With your Armored Mage ability maxed out and this feat you can wear any type of armor and heavy shields without arcane casting failure. Ok if your mind is set on wearing heavy armor, but note that you are better off using mithral material.
  • Combat Expertise PHB: A requirement feat for improved trip/disarm. Due to your high base attack bonus you can actually benefit from it. At low levels you can use it along with power attack and true strike to optimize your damage, attack bonus and defense in melee.
  • Deformity (tall) HH: Requires willing deformity. The mechanics of this and inhuman reach are pretty much the same. It is a question of flavor which one should you use.
  • Exotic Weapon Proficiency PHB: The best weapons with reach generally are exotic. Spiked chain and whip are some of the choices.
  • Improved Trip/Disarm PHB: Tripping is considered an attack option so it doesn't interfere with your arcane channeling ability. Benefits from a high strength.
  • Inhuman Reach LoM: Sure it requires a worthless feat to get, but reach helps you much!
  • Martial Study/Stance ToB: To enchance the combat abilities of a duskblade, maneuvers and stances can provide nice benefits especialy when you can use them while channeling. One maneuver of note is White Raven Tactics that can be used on yourself. That's essentialy a double full channeling attack. Getting martial study in the white raven school at early levels nets you diplomacy as a class skill, which will let you act as your party's face if needed.
  • Power Attack PHB: Great base attack bonus and ability to cast true strike can result to nice damage boosts. Make sure that you use a two handed weapon. That way you get double the penalty you apply to your BAB. It scales nicely at all levels and synergizes with the other suggested abilities that provide bonuses to your attacks (arcane strike, knowledge devotion, improved familiar flanking bonuses, etc).


Spellcasting/Metamagic Feats

  • Arcane Preparation CAr: This helps you to apply metamagic to your touch spells and still be able to channel them. Because you are a spontaneous caster, if you apply a metamagic feat to one of your spells, it then becomes a full-round action, making it unable to channel. I highly recommend against taking metamagic feats to your duskblade. Moreover, rapid metamagic is strictly better than this.
  • Eschew Materials PHB: In the case you are channeling a spell with material components and have both hands full, you still need to provide the component needed for the spell to work.
  • Rapid Metamagic CM: Use it with your favourite metamagic feats for channeling.
  • Somatic Weaponry CM: Same as eschew materials, but better depending on point of view.