Ogre Battle: Tactics?

[CaptainKarzak]

My first 4th edition monster encounter involved an ogre warhulk (L11 elite brute, p.199 MM) that has reach 2 and causes an irresistible knockdown on all its attacks.  

I basically ended up getting knocked on my ass and kited a lot (it didn't help that I forgot to equip armor in DDI so my calculated AC was poor).  As a ranger (Bugbear, Two Weapon Build, L10) how should I handle enemies like this? Do I have to hang back with a bow? I never thought about this in 3.X because reach was completely trivialized by the ability to tumble. It seems there's no analogue to tumble in 4.0?

[Dan2]

Well, pinning it down with the defender, to help keep it from moving would be the best bet.  Attacks that cause immobilization or knock the opponent prone would be a big help.  If they can't move they're a lot easier.

The reach could be annoying if he manages to keep you exactly at the edge of his reach, but since it's not threatening reach, it slightly less of a problem.

Also, as a Ranger, did you happen to pick up attacks that allowed you to move?

[CaptainKarzak]

Our only defender is a Paladin. I don't know if Paladins in general have those kind of immobilizing powers, and I really don't know if the player picked any of those powers. Plus, he was kind of busy being wailed on by another enemy NPC who had flanked him.

I have a daily power - frenzied skirmish - that allows me to move my speed and ignore opportunity attacks. Another Daily power, Attacks on the Run also allows me to move my speed and attack (but grants no additional protection for opportunity attacks). Our DM said we can use any power as part of a charge, also.

The problem is that:

A) Closing with the ogre is difficult because if I get hit I am forced prone. And because of reach 2, moving adjacent will provoke and opportunity attack. [What does threatening reach mean? There's different kinds of reach now?]

B) If I am adjacent to the ogre, I get hit, dropped prone and the ogre shifts back one. Now I have to stand up (move action) and I no longer have enough actions to close and attack.

C1) If I shift back 1 after standing up, the ogre can charge me next turn and knock my ass to the ground (if the ogre is willing to provoke weak opportunity attacks from our warlord and maybe the pally too). Otherwise it knocks someone else (the warlord) to the ground and I risk another opportunity attack again when I try to close once again.

C2)Alternatively I could shift forward 1 after standing up, so that I am again adjacent to him I only have a minor action left in the round. Next turn he knocks me down and shifts back 1...

I suppose I could just skip the getting up bit and use my move action to crawl towards him 1 space, provoking an opportunity attack, every round I do this [and sacrificing my dignity], and then using my standard action to mutilate his shins with my attacks at a very significant penalty for being prone. And I was having trouble hitting him even without penalties.

Or I could just walk way, and shoot him in the face a lot with my long bow. I'm not so good with the bow though: two attacks at +13 to hit for 1D12 + 1 apiece (via twin strike) versus AC 25.

[BowenSilverclaw]

[spoiler]Reach: You can attack enemies that are 2 squares away from you as well as adjacent enemies, with no attack penalty. You can still make opportunity attacks only against adjacent enemies. Likewise, you can flank only an adjacent enemy.

Threatening Reach: This creature can make opportunity
attacks against any opponents within its reach.[/spoiler]

[CaptainKarzak]

Holy shit! That makes things a bit easier, but even without threating reach he can still kite me with knowdown because I expend a move action standing up.

[Dan2]

How many of these guys were there?  If the party has extra people, each Ogre can only lock down one of you...

[CaptainKarzak]

Just one, but I attracted most of his attention. Also, the other PC's were splitting their attention with two other hostile NPC's besides the ogre elite.

[Eepop]

If you have any control over items, find/make some acrobat boots*.  Obviously that's more of a preparation thing than a tactics thing, but they really are very useful...so useful that I would say everyone should get a pair to wear as their default boots until they get something that specifically is for their build.


*Acrobat boots are a level 2 item that let you stand up from prone as a minor action.

[CaptainKarzak]

Thanks, that's a pretty nifty item! I'll pick up a pair of those acrobat boots as soon as I can.


Someone once mentioned that the elites weren't dangerous because of their damage, but rather because of the other effects that they dispense on top of their damage.
Generally speaking, what are the most important status effects to guard against? For example, knock down was pretty ugly (especially combined with reach and shifting).

Also is there are hierarchy of importance among Non AC Defenses? Like in 3.x where Fort>Will>>Reflex