Author Topic: A new type of spell points casting  (Read 1135 times)

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Cromarty

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A new type of spell points casting
« on: July 22, 2009, 12:12:59 AM »
Whatever our collective opinions of a spell-point casting system or psionics, I think we can all agree that they need work. In fact, I don't think any of them work. At all. Ever.

Which is sort of a shame. Spells increase in power exponentially, each new level being at least twice as good as the last. Barring some specific cases, wizards or sorcerers start off battles by casting the highest-level spell they're capable of. At the very least they're going to try to cast a spell of the highest-level they've got available in any level-appropriate encounter. Barring utility magic and some special exceptions (there are always exceptions) only the highest-level spells a magic-user can cast actually matter.

All the above said, I've come across two very similar approaches that I like very much. The first is http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Mana-Based_Spellcasting_(DnD_Variant_Rule). The second, and the one that led me to the first, is here: http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=50026.

The core of the system is that a caster has a limited number of points that never really goes up or only goes up slowly. This is a low number, and stays low. As he grows in power, the costs of weaker and weaker spells (relative to the stronger ones that he can now cast) goes down. Spells get cheaper instead of more expensive.
character level      cost to cast
spell level
   0   1   2   3   4   5
1 4   8
2 3   6
3 2   4   8
4 2   3   6
5 1   2   4   8
6 1   2   3   6
7 0   1   2   4   8
8 0   1   2   3   6
9 *   0   1   2   4   8
The corresponding values associated with this table by the original poster (I make no claims of ownership or origination) is that a caster starts with 32 points/day and this number never really changes. Also, spells with a cost of 0 don't cost anything and can be cast at will forever. Spells with a cost of * have their casting times decreased by one step.

Frankly I love this idea but before I rush to implement it I want some second opinions on the balance issues. Primary casters are strong enough without the need to give them essentially free spells. What's the board's opinion? Any comments?

-Cromarty

Again-this is asking balance questions about the given work. I'm responsible only for posting it here.

As an aside, can anyone tell me how to get the url tags to work properly. They seem out to get me today. Thanks!

RobbyPants

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Re: A new type of spell points casting
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2009, 09:27:34 AM »
For the most part, it looks like you have your highest level spell costing 8 points (or 6 on even levels) and each level below that it is half the cost.  Also, you start with 32 points, which means you can cast your best spell 4 or 5 times depending on your exact level.  

How is this any different than having the SP cost of each spell level simply double while doubling the SP a caster gets every odd level?  It should work out the same.  For example, take a SP cost progression like this:
Spell  SP
Level  Cost
0      0
1      1
2      2
3      4
4      8
5      16
6      32
7      64
8      128
9      256

And then have a SP per caster level progression like:
Caster  Total
Level   SP
1       4
2       6
3       8
4       12
5       16
6       24
7       32
8       48
9       64
10      96
11      128
12      192
13      256
14      384
15      512
16      768
17      1024
18      1536
19      2048
20      3072


I can see an aversion to a system like this because the numbers are a bit higher, but it still holds to the doubling principle.  I guess personally speaking, I find a system like this more intuative, but it should be pretty similar in implementation to yours (with doubling "effective" costs).  So, while I think this version is more intuitive, I think yours might be more simple mathematically speaking.

Whatever our collective opinions of a spell-point casting system or psionics, I think we can all agree that they need work. In fact, I don't think any of them work. At all. Ever.
For the most part, I actually think psionics is a pretty solid system, at least compared to standard casting.


Again-this is asking balance questions about the given work. I'm responsible only for posting it here.
Well, I'm a little iffy on simply doubling costs.  Basically, it means you get 256 1st level spells per 9th level spell.  I guess by the time a standard PHB caster gets to 17th+ level, they already have ways to cast tons of 1st level spells anyway, so maybe it doesn't really matter.


As an aside, can anyone tell me how to get the url tags to work properly. They seem out to get me today. Thanks!
The tag (in square brackets instead of angle brackets) is <url=www.somewebsite.com>text</url>

« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 09:34:55 AM by RobbyPants »
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Cromarty

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Re: A new type of spell points casting
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2009, 01:45:31 AM »
The tag (in square brackets instead of angle brackets) is <url=www.somewebsite.com>text</url>

Great! Thanks!

Yes, you are absolutely correct in your evaluation-the point is that at 20th level-and, I think, long before that-any and all first level spells, with the possible exception of cure minor wounds, are totally unimportant. You could literally cast them all day and it would have no appreciable effect on the game. The rest of the world would totally not care. The base for the 32 points, as far as I can tell, is that at any given level you should be able to cast your highest level spell at least four times a day, which meshes up with an estimated 4 encounters/day.

I'm not sold on it myself; that's why I posted it here for some balance opinions. I'm most interested in using it for an initiator class rather than a spellcasting one, though in that case it would be 32 points/encounter, not /day. I'll think about.

Thanks for your input, RobbyPants. I appreciate it.

-Cromarty

McPoyo

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Re: A new type of spell points casting
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 11:48:57 PM »
How are you handling caster level scaling, though?
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