Author Topic: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level  (Read 6675 times)

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GawainBS

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ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« on: July 21, 2009, 02:50:26 PM »
Tumbing through ToB yesterday, I noticed that the PrCs (I was reading JPM, but I assume all of them say so) add their full level to your Initiator Level.
I know you have to choose to which progression you add manouvres known, readied and stances, if you're multiclassed between two martial adepts. However, it never mentioned IL.
Given that you add full PrC level to your IL, does this go for each base martial adept you have? For example, Warblade4/Swordsage2/Wizard4/JPM10. Would he have a WB IL of 17 and a SS IL of 16? (This seems to be the correct interpretation to me.)
Or would he have to choose at each JPM level to which Martial Adept he adds this level? (And count the PrC levels as half when determining his other adept IL?)

Thanks in advance!

Sinfire Titan

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Re: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2009, 02:55:19 PM »
The IL applies to both, IIRC.


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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2009, 03:37:11 PM »
Yeah, IIRC SiFir is correct.
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Hallack

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Re: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 03:56:04 PM »
For example, Warblade4/Swordsage2/Wizard4/JPM10. Would he have a WB IL of 17 and a SS IL of 16? (This seems to be the correct interpretation to me.)

This is indeed correct.
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GawainBS

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Re: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 04:42:02 PM »
Thanks. Wow, that's awfully powerful. Why wouldn't you multiclass with Adepts then?

Hallack

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Re: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2009, 04:52:30 PM »
Mostly due to speed of IL advancement and higher level maneuvers but class features are also a reason.

If starting a game at higher level there is less reason not to multiclass perahps but if starting low level maximizing your IL is often enough to keep one from multiclassing too much.  Of course, it is quite common I think to take 2 levels of another class to help time/stagger the learning of stances.
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2009, 09:59:31 PM »
Thanks. Wow, that's awfully powerful. Why wouldn't you multiclass with Adepts then?

Because th Warblade's Dual Stance ability is actually more powerful than the Mo9's version, and Crusader 20 is perfectly viable for a Tank build (even if RKV or Mo9 are good options). Swordsage has little reason to stay in past 4 (it has some, but not enough for Setting Sun/Shadow Hand-focused builds to make up for the Medium BAB). Tiger Claw/Diamond Mind/Desert Wind-focused builds can make decent use of Swordsage's Dual Boost feature, enough to make up for the lack of good recovery mechanic/BAB.

Crusader 20 offers +6 Attack/Damage, 9th level maneuvers for White Raven, Stone Dragon, and Devoted Spirit. Master of Nine may be amazing for your maneuvers known, but it cuts so deeply into your feats/levels/skills to actually qualify that it doesn't justify trying the build for anything lower than 15th level, IIRC only 1 other PrC offers White Raven as an option (and Warblade is the better entry), and the only Stone Dragon PrC is kinda nerfed due to Medium BAB. The two classes that offer Devoted Spirit (aside from Mo9) both require spellcasting, and only one of those two makes for a decent Tank-oriented build. RKV is the best choice for a Gish-Tank build, but then you would be focusing more on Divine casting than on maneuvers (and Swordsage 2 makes for better entry, as it requires less Skill Points and boosts your stealth abilities, and has better Ability Dependency).

And who the hell enters Bloodclaw Master with a Crusader?


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GawainBS

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Re: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2009, 06:00:56 AM »
I don't doubt the power of pure Adepts, only that if you do go into a PrC, you gain a lot from a dip into another Adept.

woodenbandman

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Re: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2009, 02:28:00 PM »
Definitely truth. However, you DO delay your ninth level maneuvers by a few levels, and every level that you're not using Time Standing Still is a level that someone else is better than you.

Sinfire Titan

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Re: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2009, 03:35:49 PM »
Definitely truth. However, you DO delay your ninth level maneuvers by a few levels, and every level that you're not using Time Standing Still is a level that someone else is better than you.

 :D


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GawainBS

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Re: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2009, 03:53:30 PM »
Definitely truth. However, you DO delay your ninth level maneuvers by a few levels, and every level that you're not using Time Standing Still is a level that someone else is better than you.

True, true, but postponing you stances is sometimes a good idea as well.

Endarire

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Re: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2009, 04:07:31 PM »
Eternal Blade offers Devoted Spirit but doesn't require spellcasting.  Its other reqs are high enough to deter entry.
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Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

GawainBS

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Re: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2009, 04:09:18 PM »
Eternal Blade offers Devoted Spirit but doesn't require spellcasting.  Its other reqs are high enough to deter entry.

Euh, yes, why do you mention it?

Sinfire Titan

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Re: ToB Prestige classes and Initiator Level
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2009, 04:38:18 PM »
Eternal Blade offers Devoted Spirit but doesn't require spellcasting.  Its other reqs are high enough to deter entry.

Oh, right. Forgot about Eternal Blade, but that's because I usually use it with Diamond Mind instead (TSS and all that).


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