An odd Gestalt 3.5 campaign (still accepting players)

[The Lurker]

Well, I think that if you multiclass after 4 levels, I could accept it. However, for a strange reason I cannot enter the thread about Races of War in order to check out the Races of War Monk. Can you, please, give me a link or explain me what the RoW Monk does?

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?yjddm5zu5mx

That's to download it.  If you want piecemeal tome material:
Fiendish Brute, Fighter, and Monk.  I didn't link tome of necromancy, but it is here.

[Nuntius Mortis]

The Factotum is in Dungeonscape, and I don't know about any other way to get the magazine other than downloading it...

But still, a template that reduces HD? how does that work?

I'm not sure if my PC can open Dungeonscape (I have it but I'm not sure that it actually can open it) but I can open it with my laptop. Anyway, when I return to home (I'm at a net cafe right now) I'll check it.

About templates that reduce HD now. You can always apply to yourself the Child Variant template found in D&D Wiki. It halves your HD and reduces your LA by one (at the expense of -2 Str, -1 Int, -1 Wis, -1 Cha but it gains +2 Dex). It also halves the NA of a creature, every countable bonus (DR, SR, Resistances, sensories like Blindsight, regeneration) and worsens the dice of any special quality by one (d8s become d6s etc). You can also cannot gain supernatural abilities at first level (but only at first level, all levels above the first are not affected by it).

I know that it sacrifices a lot but with this template you can have a creature up to 24 HD (considering your LA would be no greater than +4).

@Lurker, I'll check those links.

EDIT: Lurker, your classes are OK, if you of course multiclass out of RoW at 4th level. I don't understand though what the Tome of Necromancy has to do with the game. As I said, no spells. However, since all these are PrCs you can get instead of a spell progression a maneuver progression identical to those of the PrCs presented in ToB.

[The Lurker]

The Factotum is in Dungeonscape, and I don't know about any other way to get the magazine other than downloading it...

But still, a template that reduces HD? how does that work?

I'm not sure if my PC can open Dungeonscape (I have it but I'm not sure that it actually can open it) but I can open it with my laptop. Anyway, when I return to home (I'm at a net cafe right now) I'll check it.

About templates that reduce HD now. You can always apply to yourself the Child Variant template found in D&D Wiki. It halves your HD and reduces your LA by one (at the expense of -2 Str, -1 Int, -1 Wis, -1 Cha but it gains +2 Dex). It also halves the NA of a creature, every countable bonus (DR, SR, Resistances, sensories like Blindsight, regeneration) and worsens the dice of any special quality by one (d8s become d6s etc). You can also cannot gain supernatural abilities at first level (but only at first level, all levels above the first are not affected by it).

I know that it sacrifices a lot but with this template you can have a creature up to 24 HD (considering your LA would be no greater than +4).

@Lurker, I'll check those links.

EDIT: Lurker, your classes are OK, if you of course multiclass out of RoW at 4th level. I don't understand though what the Tome of Necromancy has to do with the game. As I said, no spells. However, since all these are PrCs you can get instead of a spell progression a maneuver progression identical to those of the PrCs presented in ToB.

I only linked tome of necromancy for completeness.  It felt bad to link 3/4 of the Frank+K completed works without listing the first one authored.  Prelim build:
RoW Aasimar (to qualify for fiendish brute) with the experimental stock background (bite attack, -5' to base speed).
Fiendish Brute 1// True Fiend 1 Combat School[Natural weapons], natural weapons, natural armor, attribute boost (str, con), Sting of the Scorpion
FB 2// RoW Monk 1 Poison Sacs(Quasit Poison), Combat Style (save versus stun, applies to all weapons), Armored in life, Willow Step
FB 3// LT Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1 Two Weapon Fighting, Pounce
FB 4// RoW Fighter 1 Pincers, Combat Focus
FB 5// RoW Fighter 2 Blitz, Attribute boost (str, con)
FB 6//  Row Fighter 3 Large Size, Extra Arms, Problem Solver
FB 7// RoW Fighter 4 attribute boost (str, con), Elusive Target
FB 8// Half Dragon 1 Carrier or Poison Sacs, Scales of the Dragon, Dragon Sight
FB 9// Half Dragon 2 Point Blank Shot, attribute boost (str, con), Wings of the dragon, subtypes, immunities, strength of the dragon
FB 10// Legendary Strategist 1 Huge Size, a world of opportunity

I'm assuming that UA flaws can't be used to get RoW and similar feats.
Flaws: Poor Reflexes
Feats from flaws: Multiattack

[bogsnes]

The Factotum is in Dungeonscape, and I don't know about any other way to get the magazine other than downloading it...

But still, a template that reduces HD? how does that work?

I'm not sure if my PC can open Dungeonscape (I have it but I'm not sure that it actually can open it) but I can open it with my laptop. Anyway, when I return to home (I'm at a net cafe right now) I'll check it.

About templates that reduce HD now. You can always apply to yourself the Child Variant template found in D&D Wiki. It halves your HD and reduces your LA by one (at the expense of -2 Str, -1 Int, -1 Wis, -1 Cha but it gains +2 Dex). It also halves the NA of a creature, every countable bonus (DR, SR, Resistances, sensories like Blindsight, regeneration) and worsens the dice of any special quality by one (d8s become d6s etc). You can also cannot gain supernatural abilities at first level (but only at first level, all levels above the first are not affected by it).

I know that it sacrifices a lot but with this template you can have a creature up to 24 HD (considering your LA would be no greater than +4).

Child is just wrong as I'll start as a wyrmling dragon, and that means that I'm already a child... -_-

Still, I can probably make a template that either reduces HD or makes up for lost spellcasting (I still can't become great wyrm, as that has 36 HD...)

[Nuntius Mortis]

I'm assuming that UA flaws can't be used to get RoW and similar feats.
Flaws: Poor Reflexes
Feats from flaws: Multiattack

I don't find a reason that UA flaws do not to apply for RoW feats. If you meet the prereqs you can take any feat you want.

I only linked tome of necromancy for completeness.  It felt bad to link 3/4 of the Frank+K completed works without listing the first one authored.  Prelim build:
RoW Aasimar (to qualify for fiendish brute) with the experimental stock background (bite attack, -5' to base speed).
Fiendish Brute 1// True Fiend 1 Combat School[Natural weapons], natural weapons, natural armor, attribute boost (str, con), Sting of the Scorpion
FB 2// RoW Monk 1 Poison Sacs(Quasit Poison), Combat Style (save versus stun, applies to all weapons), Armored in life, Willow Step
FB 3// LT Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1 Two Weapon Fighting, Pounce
FB 4// RoW Fighter 1 Pincers, Combat Focus
FB 5// RoW Fighter 2 Blitz, Attribute boost (str, con)
FB 6//  Row Fighter 3 Large Size, Extra Arms, Problem Solver
FB 7// RoW Fighter 4 attribute boost (str, con), Elusive Target
FB 8// Half Dragon 1 Carrier or Poison Sacs, Scales of the Dragon, Dragon Sight
FB 9// Half Dragon 2 Point Blank Shot, attribute boost (str, con), Wings of the dragon, subtypes, immunities, strength of the dragon
FB 10// Legendary Strategist 1 Huge Size, a world of opportunity

I see that you have it all thought out. Interesting build.

Child is just wrong as I'll start as a wyrmling dragon, and that means that I'm already a child... -_-

Still, I can probably make a template that either reduces HD or makes up for lost spellcasting (I still can't become great wyrm, as that has 36 HD...)

Yeah, I can see your point about the child template

Yeah, you can of course make a template that would reduce the HD. When you finish the template link it to the topic

[Nuntius Mortis]

[Deleted]

EDIT: Sorry guys, I just posted the answer to bogsnes seperately at the beginning.

[bogsnes]

What about:

Spell-less creature template.

The templated creature loses all spellcasting it posseses.
For each level of spellcasting lost you gain 1 CL point, which you can use like this:
1 CL point = remove 1 racial HD
2 CL points = remove 1 LA
3 CL points = remove 2 LA
(maybe more options to increase stats and the like)

Does that sound fair? It's very little fluff, but that could be added if needed...

This template could also make it easier for other people with spellcasting races

For classes, I am going to have 3 levels of Factotum...
My classes is probably just going to be stuff that gets boosted by having a high Int, like Factotum, or Warblade and such...

Also, at level 1 I am going to have like 26 Int and stuff ... I do only need to find something that can give me an Int based DC, and go insane

EDIT: Wait, my Int will be above 26 at level 1... Because of templates it will be more like, 34 ...

[Nuntius Mortis]

What about:

Spell-less creature template.

The templated creature loses all spellcasting it posseses.
For each level of spellcasting lost you gain 1 CL point, which you can use like this:
1 CL point = remove 1 racial HD
2 CL points = remove 1 LA
3 CL points = remove 2 LA
(maybe more options to increase stats and the like)

Does that sound fair? It's very little fluff, but that could be added if needed...

This template could also make it easier for other people with spellcasting races

For classes, I am going to have 3 levels of Factotum...
My classes is probably just going to be stuff that gets boosted by having a high Int, like Factotum, or Warblade and such...

Also, at level 1 I am going to have like 26 Int and stuff ... I do only need to find something that can give me an Int based DC, and go insane

EDIT: Wait, my Int will be above 26 at level 1... Because of templates it will be more like, 34 ...

The template seems very nice indeed. Other players could use it well so kudos to you

The problem however is that the wyrmling Tome Dragon has an LA of +5 and the Paramind template an LA of +4. You would need another template in order to drop your LA to +4 because just the loss of 3 CLs wouldn't justify such a heavy drop in LA.

Personally, I advice you to start as a Juvenile Dragon (+7 LA). That way, you could drop 9 CLs, SR 17, DR 5/Magic, Free metamagic and some SLAs that could drop your LA heavily (maybe even to +3 even with the Paramind template which is +4). Plus, that way you could apply the Child template to your character in order to lose a further LA and to halve your HD. You could justify it in your story that you're the son/daughter of a Factotum (explaining your class choice) who was charmed by the knowledges of a Juvenile Tome Dragon (explaining the fact that you're a Tome Dragon ). You could have 5HD (2 taken away by the loss of 2 CLs due to the spell-less template and then halved by the Child template) and LA +2 (8 taken away from the loss of 7 CLs, SLAs, DR, Free Metamagic and SR and one taken away by the child template) so you'd still have 18 point buy and an Int of 33 without even spenting a point in it

Of course, the five first levels on the one side of the gestalt would be racial HD (and I don't think that you could complain about it because the Dragon Racial HD are awesome as you'll gain Full BAB, d12 Hit Dice and all good saves).

PS: I just read the factotum class. The arcane Dilletante class feature as well as the spells that can be cast through it is, of course, lost in that campaign. You can choose another feature instead of them (for example you could gain feats that you qualify for instead of this ability or a maneuver progression). However, seeing that most of the class features are based in inspiration points, which are terribly low in my opinion and I do not know if there's a way to raise them (as PP can), I propose the following: Add your Int modifier to the inspiration points. I find these two closely related so there's nothing more logical for the one affecting the other.

[The Lurker]

I'm assuming that UA flaws can't be used to get RoW and similar feats.
Flaws: Poor Reflexes
Feats from flaws: Multiattack

I don't find a reason that UA flaws do not to apply for RoW feats. If you meet the prereqs you can take any feat you want.

Mostly because it does stuff like this:

Flaw: Vulnerable
Feat: Elusive Target
Net effect: +1 AC AND all the other stuff the feat gives.

or

Flaw: Meager Fortitude
Feat: Great Fortitude
Net effect: No penalty to anything, but you get diehard at BAB 1, improved toughness at 6, and DR 5/- at 11.

or

Flaw: Feeble
Feat: Juggernaut
Net Effect: +2 to all the str and dex checks that matter and can enter an opponent's square without penalty from first level.  Can shatter walls of force at sixth level as an attack option (4 damage from the feat, 12 damage from power attack, 10ish str, 10ish base weapon damage).

Flaw: Poor Reflexes
Feat: Lightning Reflexes
Net Effect: Evasion at level 1, automatically make all reflex saves at level 6 (skill checks scale faster than DCs)

I HEAVILY advise you not to allow people to grab Tome feats with anything besides Tome Classes that explicitly give them (fighter, samurai, etc) or HD feats.  If you are doing that, I'll probably be playing something like PHB Fighter 2/ PW 2/ Feat Rogue 2/ etc just to keep up.  Tome Feats are designed with the intent that they give "Special effects" that let people with shitty stats (PCs) compete with people with good stats but low options (outsiders and dragons).

So, yeah.  I HEAVILY advise restricting tome feats to the classes that grant them per tome material or else the game just flies way out of whack.

[Nuntius Mortis]

Mostly because it does stuff like this:

Flaw: Vulnerable
Feat: Elusive Target
Net effect: +1 AC AND all the other stuff the feat gives.

or

Flaw: Meager Fortitude
Feat: Great Fortitude
Net effect: No penalty to anything, but you get diehard at BAB 1, improved toughness at 6, and DR 5/- at 11.

or

Flaw: Feeble
Feat: Juggernaut
Net Effect: +2 to all the str and dex checks that matter and can enter an opponent's square without penalty from first level.  Can shatter walls of force at sixth level as an attack option (4 damage from the feat, 12 damage from power attack, 10ish str, 10ish base weapon damage).

Flaw: Poor Reflexes
Feat: Lightning Reflexes
Net Effect: Evasion at level 1, automatically make all reflex saves at level 6 (skill checks scale faster than DCs)

I HEAVILY advise you not to allow people to grab Tome feats with anything besides Tome Classes that explicitly give them (fighter, samurai, etc) or HD feats.  If you are doing that, I'll probably be playing something like PHB Fighter 2/ PW 2/ Feat Rogue 2/ etc just to keep up.  Tome Feats are designed with the intent that they give "Special effects" that let people with shitty stats (PCs) compete with people with good stats but low options (outsiders and dragons).

So, yeah.  I HEAVILY advise restricting tome feats to the classes that grant them per tome material or else the game just flies way out of whack.

Ah, you're talking about the feats that scale to your BAB or skill ranks. Well, I'm not sure about them. I can live with my PCs having them but if they do then the NPCs will have them as well. So, because I'm quite neutral about them, I'll let the PCs to decide about that. If all of the remaining PCs are ok with that, then they're available. If not, then they aren't.

That said here's where you can all download (except from Lurker of course ) said feats:

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?yjddm5zu5mx

[The Lurker]

Ah, you're talking about the feats that scale to your BAB or skill ranks. Well, I'm not sure about them. I can live with my PCs having them but if they do then the NPCs will have them as well. So, because I'm quite neutral about them, I'll let the PCs to decide about that. If all of the remaining PCs are ok with that, then they're available. If not, then they aren't.

That said here's where you can all download (except from Lurker of course ) said feats:

But more importantly, getting something for nothing is stupid and shouldn't be allowed in the game.

Classed NPCs (above level five; below that, you get to use the easy to generate NPC classes in the tome), should have scaling feats and be built like PCs.  Monsters are the CR they are, with the feats they've been given.  Tossing insightful strike on an ice devil does bump up its CR, so it isn't something for nothing.  It's something for increased CR.

[Nuntius Mortis]

But more importantly, getting something for nothing is stupid and shouldn't be allowed in the game.

I agree but forcing someone to incorporate said classes in their build in order to gain those feats would probably bring imbalance to the game or even seem unfair to some because one player could have those feats while another couldn't. And as they're not fluff-based feats (like those in the Chaos Monk Redux for example), I don't see a reason why only classes presented in this tome would have those feats. I think that all PCs should have an opinion on that subject and that's why I'm putting it on a vote.

However, if a PC turns out more overpowered than the rest of the party then I'll probably won't let them to take those feats.

[The Lurker]

But more importantly, getting something for nothing is stupid and shouldn't be allowed in the game.

I agree but forcing someone to incorporate said classes in their build in order to gain those feats would probably bring imbalance to the game or even seem unfair to some because one player could have those feats while another couldn't. And as they're not fluff-based feats (like those in the Chaos Monk Redux for example), I don't see a reason why only classes presented in this tome would have those feats. I think that all PCs should have an opinion on that subject and that's why I'm putting it on a vote.

However, if a PC turns out more overpowered than the rest of the party then I'll probably won't let them to take those feats.

If I'm not mistaken I advocated only allowing Tome feats to be taken as bonus feats from the Tome classes and as level feats.  That second part is important.  A warblade taking horde breaker as a HD feat is totally cool.  It's no different from a Tome Barbarian (no bonus feats in that class) taking it as a level feat.  What I'm advocating is not letting people grab them with flaws, PHB fighter, feat rogue, and similar.

[Vinom]

I'm working on the ultemet two class synergy... Druid/(Insert that class that can prefore surgeries that transfer abilities)

[The Lurker]

I'm working on the ultemet two class synergy... Druid/(Insert that class that can prefore surgeries that transfer abilities)

Wildshape is supernatural and spells don't work.  Perhaps just take the wild cohort feat?

[Vinom]

I'm working on the ultemet two class synergy... Druid/(Insert that class that can prefore surgeries that transfer abilities)

Wildshape is supernatural and spells don't work.  Perhaps just take the wild cohort feat?

It's not supper natural, it's biological...

[Nuntius Mortis]

Well, supernatural abilities do exist in this campaign setting (as I've mentioned in the OP) but I'm not going to allow a druid because they are a full spellcasting class (aka they take spells at their first level) and as I've mentioned in the OP as well spellcasting classes are not accepted in that campaign.

[The Lurker]

1) What is the starting level?
2) Are you letting scaling Tome feats be taken with flaws and bullshit dip classes like PHB fighter and feat rogue?
3) How are stats generated?

[Vinom]

Well, supernatural abilities do exist in this campaign setting (as I've mentioned in the OP) but I'm not going to allow a druid because they are a full spellcasting class (aka they take spells at their first level) and as I've mentioned in the OP as well spellcasting classes are not accepted in that campaign.

How is this thing suposed to work?

[Nuntius Mortis]

How is this thing suposed to work?

I'm afraid that I do not understand what do you mean.

1) What is the starting level?

I guess 1st unless if all of the PCs want to start in a higher level.

2) Are you letting scaling Tome feats be taken with flaws and bullshit dip classes like PHB fighter and feat rogue?

Unless all PCs accept those feats to be taken by any class, then no. If all PCs agree on this, then yes.

3) How are stats generated?

LA +0 = 32 points
LA +1 = 25 points
LA +2 = 18 points
LA +3 = 10 points
LA +4 = 00 points

All PCs start with an 8 in every ability score.