Author Topic: Hand2Hand - Revised Edition (3.5...5?)  (Read 2135 times)

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MasterVega

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Hand2Hand - Revised Edition (3.5...5?)
« on: July 14, 2009, 03:21:17 AM »
Hand 2 Hand (Revised)

In melee combat, there are always distinct points of advantage in a fight. These states of advantage are far from static, though, and it is not uncommon to see advantage in combat swing from one opponent to the other with incredible swiftness. To capture the feel of this struggle for the upper hand, and the benefits gained from attaining the leg up on your opponent, I have taken the original Hand 2 Hand engine and begun work on another more streamlined version.

Ad and Dis-Ad

While I had originally created a system to be point-based, it has become clear that point pools created several unwanted side-effects: a feeling of over-complexity, inconsistencies when new combatants joined a fight, and other things that I'll probably talk about later.
In the place of Blocking Points (which were used in the last iteration), I've created an Ad and Dis-Ad system... like some brutal form of tennis. When a player uses a combination of moves to get the upper hand, he gains a certain degree of Ad over the opponent (bringing the opponent into Dis-Ad). Depending on how strong his advantage is, he can unleash more and more powerful moves.
For instance, a boxer will jab at his opponent a few times to wear him down before bringing in a haymaker to do some real damage. A specialist in far eastern martial arts will similarly use lighter punches and kicks before unleashing a bone-shattering spin-kick. This will all be accounted for by Ad and Dis-Ad (which are technically just two sides of the same coin).

Gaining the advantage:
Getting Ad in combat can be difficult at times. It requires patience and tactical thinking, and combat training certainly helps, but it is possible for any character to gain Ad.
How exactly do you gain the advantage? By using weaker moves that leave you less vulnerable to counter attack. A jab, while considerably weaker than a full-force punch, will serve to wear your opponent down without creating an opening in your defenses. Wear your opponent down far enough and you can start wreaking havoc on him with more powerful techniques.
There are only six levels of ad: -1, 0, +1, +2, +3, and +4. While some weaker moves will increase Ad, most medium to high-powered moves will cost it. Some incredibly powerful moves may even land you in Dis-Ad after devastating your opponent.

Why it sucks to be on the disadvantage:

Not only is your opponent throwing more and more powerful moves at you, the difference in class becomes even clearer when he starts to dodge your attacks. If you are on the disadvantage and attempt to strike your opponent back, he can automatically dodge you by simply giving up a level of Ad. Similarly if you use an attack that will bring you into disadvantage, your opponent may choose to automatically dodge you by giving up a level of Ad.
When in dis-ad, you can't gain Ad until you have brought your opponent back down to Deuce (at which point, your ad level becomes Deuce as well)
There may be moves that require you to be in dis-ad later. First I want to get a basic system up and running.

Making Multiple Attacks
After you attack once, if you have at least two levels of ad left, you may spend two to initiate another attack.
You may make one additional attack with your off-hand (or off-foot as the case my be), but this causes a -4 penalty penalty to all of your attacks that round (including the off-hand).

Basic Attacks
All of this is probably a pain to understand without examples, right? Well, here we are, finally, at the attacks list. The following attacks can be used by any humanoid regardless of training.
Characters trained in close-combat fighting styles gain access to stronger attacks.

Attacks will be in the following format:
Move - The name of the move.
Ad Effect: - What type of effect it has on Ad. Usually a self-gain/diminish opponent's ad or an ad-loss for more powerful attacks.
Special Effect: - Effects that make this move unique.
Damage: - The damage this move will do.

Basic Jab
Ad Effect: Gain one Ad level or diminish opponent's by one as applicable.
Special Effect: +4 to attack roll.
Damage: 1d2+strength mod, non-lethal damage.

Basic Punch
Ad Effect: None
Special Effect: Sacrifice one level of combat advantage to deal lethal damage. (Cannot be done at Dis-Ad)
Damage: 1d4+strength mod, non-lethal damage.

Basic Kick
Ad Effect: Lose one level of Ad.
Special Effect: Sacrifice one additional level of combat advantage to deal lethal damage. (Cannot be done at Dis-Ad)
Damage: 1d8+strength mod, non-lethal damage.

Basic Trip
Ad Effect: Lose one level of Ad.
Special Effect: Full-round Action, Touch Attack, make a second attack roll verses target's dexterity or strength roll (his choice). If he loses, he is rendered prone and loses two levels of Ad. If you lose, your trip attempt fails and your attack is wasted.
Damage: None.

Basic Weapon attacks

Hilt Bash
Ad Effect: Gain one level of add or diminish opponent's by one as applicable.
Special: Deals bludgeoning damage no matter what the normal damage type of the weapon.
Damage 1d2+strength mod (light)/1d4+strength mod (one-handed)/1d6+2Xstrength mod (two-handed).

Basic Cross-Strike
Ad Effect: N/A
Special Effect: None
Damage: Normal for weapon.

Heavy Cross-Strike
Ad Effect: Lose one level of ad.
Special: N/A
Damage: Normal damage +1/2 damage die.

Basic Lunge
Ad Effect: Lose one level of ad
Special: You may move up to five feet before or after the strike. This does not count as a move action.
Damage: Normal for weapon.

Like before, I intend to develop moves for other martial arts using this system, but for right now I'd like to know you guys think of it.

Thanks for reading and hopefully replying!
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 07:47:22 PM by MasterVega »
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Prime32

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Re: Hand2Hand - Revised Edition (3.5...5?)
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2009, 02:12:06 PM »
So, how does Improved Unarmed Strike enter into this?

Any reason the Advantage categories aren't just called "-1", "0", "+1", "+2", "+3" and "+4"?

I'm a little confused on whether both combatants can have positive Ad against each other at the same time (or indeed, both have Dis-Ad).
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

MasterVega

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Re: Hand2Hand - Revised Edition (3.5...5?)
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2009, 02:21:50 PM »
Honestly, to make this work with D&D, there are a lot of feats I'll have to change. One of those feats is IUS, as its effect would kinda be lost in this system. It will probably be modified to grant different (better) martial arts techniques instead. BAB doesn't even have all the same effect it did before, since you no longer gain iterative attacks from it (and instead you gain extra attacks by sacrificing ad... which I apparently forgot to update this with. >_< Hold on a moment.)

I gave them names because it was morning and I wasn't thinking everything through. Numbers are probably a better way to go so long as it's understood that it isn't a point pool. :P

You can't both be in ad or dis-ad. If one person gains ad, the other is shifted to dis-ad, and if he shifts back down to deuce, the opponent is brought up to deuce. Attacks that would gain you ad against an opponent when you are in dis-ad instead decrease his Ad status.

Hopefully that makes sense?

EDIT: Added in the rules for multiple attacks.

EDIT2: New combat styles will be posted here.
Art of Steel
Quick and masterful strikes, extra attacks and inexpensive parries
Focused on bladed weapons
Tier One Techniques
[spoiler]Swift Slash
Ad Effect: Gain one Ad level or diminish opponent's by one as applicable
Special Effect: +1 to attack on next attack against opponent struck.
Damage: Normal

Deflect
Ad Effect: None
Special Effect: Once a creature has attacked you, but before the results of the attack are known, roll an attack against opponent's attack. If your attack roll exceeds the creature's, you block the strike. Otherwise the attack roll is calculated normally. This technique is activated as an immediate action.
Damage: None

Advanced Lunge
Ad Effect: Lose one Ad level
Special Effect: Move up to five feet before or after attacking. Increase critical threat range by 2.
Damage: Normal.

Twin Cuts
Ad Effect: Lose one Ad level
Special Effect: Strike twice.
Damage: Normal, but no bonus from strength modifier.[/spoiler]
Dance of the Death Goddess
Combo-based discipline with quick acceleration of Ad, allowing a fast attack rate at the cost of individual striking power
Focused on light weapons
Tier one techniques
[spoiler]Lethe Strike
Ad Effect: Gain two Ad levels or diminish opponent's by one as applicable
Special Effect: Has no Ad effect if used multiple times in the same round.
Damage: Normal

Bleeding StrikeDistracting StrikeCrimson Flourish
Destroyer
Powerful strikes mixed with knockback effects and debilitating attacks
Focused on two-handed weapons
Tier one techniques
[spoiler]Falling Smash
Ad Effect: Gain one Ad level or diminish opponent's by one as applicable
Special Effect: Foe successfully struck must make a fortitude save (DC10+strength mod) or take a -2 on next attack roll.
Damage: Normal

Upward Strike
Ad Effect: Lose one Ad level
Special Effect: Foe successfully struck must make a reflex save (DC10+strength mod) or fall prone.
Damage: Normal

Executioner's Strike
Ad Effect: Lose one Ad level
Special Effect: Foe must be prone for this attack to be used.
Damage: Double normal

Strike of the Ram
Ad Effect: Lose three Ad levels
Special Effect: Foe successfully struck must make a reflex save (DC10+strength mod) or be knocked back 5ft per 10 points of damage sustained from this attack. If the target creature collides with any objects or creatures down to one size larger than itself in this way, it takes an extra 2d6 points of damage.
Damage: Normal damage.[/spoiler]

Dragon Claw
Powerful strikes mixed with magic buffs and effects
Focused on unarmed strikes
Tier one techniques
[spoiler]Fist of the Wyrmling
Ad Effect: Gain one level of Ad
Special: N/A
Damage: 1d4+strength Mod

Raking Talons
Ad Effect: N/A.
Special: Add 1d4 slashing damage to all unarmed strikes for a number of rounds equal to half of your level. This effect does not stack with additional uses of Raking Talons.
Damage: 1d4+strength mod. (Do not add extra 1d4 slashing damage from the special effect of this technique.)

Claws of Flame
Ad Effect: Lose one level of ad.
Special: Add +1d4 fire damage to all unarmed strikes for a number of rounds equal to half of your level (minimum of 1).
Damage: 1d4+strength mod. (Do not ad extra 1d4 fire damage from the special effect of this technique.)

Ripping Strike
Ad Effect: Lose two levels of Ad.
Special: On contact, target must make a fortitude save (DC10+strength modifier) or lose move action next turn.
Damage: 1d10+strength mod.[/spoiler]
Shield of the Heavens
A balanced discipline with a specialization in counter attacks
Focused on one-handed weapons and shields
Tier one techniques
[spoiler]Scorpion Stab
Ad Effect: Gain one level of Ad or diminish opponent's by one.
Special: Can be activated as an immediate action if a foe's melee attack misses you. Weapon only.
Damage: Normal

Shield Bash
Ad Effect: Gain one level of Ad or diminish opponent's by one.
Special: Can be activated as an immediate action if a foe's melee attack hits you. Shield only.
Damage: Normal

Unbalancing Smash
Ad effect: Lose one level of Ad.
Special: Opponent must make a reflex save (DC10+strength mod) or draw an attack of opportunity from you. This effect applies only once per round.

Heavy Counterstrike
Ad effect: Lose two levels of Ad
Special: May only be used as an immediate action in response to a foe's melee attack.
Damage: 3X normal[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 02:29:08 PM by MasterVega »
I might be insane, but at least I\'m not deluded...

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Current PbP Games:
The Good, the Bad, and the Undead as Cedric McDouglan, ex-soldier shadow hunter.

MasterVega

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Re: Hand2Hand - Revised Edition (3.5...5?)
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2009, 02:40:06 PM »
Space Reserved for new/altered feats.
I might be insane, but at least I\'m not deluded...

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MasterVega

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Re: Hand2Hand - Revised Edition (3.5...5?)
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2009, 03:57:54 PM »
Okay, so that's all I have at the moment. I'll keep working on the system and adding techniques as I go. Questions and comments would be appreciated.
I might be insane, but at least I\'m not deluded...

My Art! :D

Current PbP Games:
The Good, the Bad, and the Undead as Cedric McDouglan, ex-soldier shadow hunter.

Prime32

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Re: Hand2Hand - Revised Edition (3.5...5?)
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2009, 04:49:32 PM »
Maybe it would be easier to understand if you replaced references to "Dis-Ad" to "when your opponent has Ad against you", and removed -1 from the list.

Ideas:
  • Increase the maximum advantage you can have as you gain levels, or have class features which do so.
  • Expend an additional point of advantage to "quicken" a manouever, such as tripping as a standard action or feinting as a swift action.

Don't think I have nothing but complaints - it's an interesting system.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 04:53:08 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

MasterVega

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Re: Hand2Hand - Revised Edition (3.5...5?)
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2009, 05:08:31 PM »
Ah, but then I lose the "vicious tennis" analogy. :P /jk. I'll try altering that in a moment.

The problem I have with increasing the combat advantage cap is that you'll start having a lot of one-sided battles once the scale tips in someone's favor, unless of course you have later moves with an Ad effect of "Gain or diminish two (or three, or four) as appropriate", or moves that require someone be at 0 to use.
I'll need to put some kind of limit on moves that gain 2 levels of add or you'll end up getting infinite attacks in the same round when you get them. >_>

I really like the "quicken" idea. It might be more appropriate as a feat/class feature, though, instead of a normal part of the system. What do you think?

I'm glad you find it interesting enough to reply to. :P I was expecting it to die fairly quickly like last time.
I might be insane, but at least I\'m not deluded...

My Art! :D

Current PbP Games:
The Good, the Bad, and the Undead as Cedric McDouglan, ex-soldier shadow hunter.

MasterVega

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Re: Hand2Hand - Revised Edition (3.5...5?)
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2009, 01:36:52 PM »
Added four disciplines (at least the first tier of each. I'll make later tiers as soon as I've got enough basic ones), but now I'm not sure how characters will gain access to them. Should they be class features, like spells and maneuvers, or feats one can purchase and must keep purchasing to advance?

What do you guys think of the concept so far?
I might be insane, but at least I\'m not deluded...

My Art! :D

Current PbP Games:
The Good, the Bad, and the Undead as Cedric McDouglan, ex-soldier shadow hunter.