Author Topic: Fridge Logic and You  (Read 17249 times)

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SorO_Lost

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Re: Fridge Logic and You
« Reply #80 on: July 28, 2009, 08:25:28 PM »
The PHB is the primary source... "unless an official errata file says otherwise".  Since the errata itself states that "bonus feats don't require the creature to fulfill any feat prerequisites", it's the one that sticks.
Fine by me.
To further assist in your point, I supply this quote from the MM errata:
Quote
Since bonus feats do not
require the creature to fulfill any feat prerequisites (see
page 301 in the Monster Manual)
, make the Weapon
Finesse feat a bonus feat and add an additional feat (see
the table below).
The errata says the monster can use Weapon Finesse references page 301 as the reason it can.
The reference is in a section for DMs and says a DM granted feat that a monster cannot normally use (like for example, weapon finesse) is allowed to so long as the DM notes it as such.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Fridge Logic and You
« Reply #81 on: July 28, 2009, 08:37:27 PM »
Oddly I compare the selective reading of "bonus feats" the same as "caster level". WotC should have tried to be a little clearer on stuff, like the folks on the MTG side.

"Folks on the MtG," as I understand it, have between 1-2 years to playtest everything that gets printed and print roughly 3 expansions per year. Designers on the D&D side probably don't have the same luxury of time and print a couple new books per month. Given the greater complexity of a tabletop roleplaying game, I can only imagine that even 1-2 years wouldn't be enough to test everything that goes into a book.

Even a core rules book.

Also, given that (off the top of my head) several million more people play M:tG than D&D ... and WotC has had MtG in its possession for longer (only, what? 10 years longer?) I can only imagine they've had a lot more time to receive feedback, have received more feedback, and managed to get more of "the kinks" out of Magic (though they continue to add more kinks with every new expansion) than they have D&D.

Just sayin'.  :smirk
Not quite to the extreme of having it's own legal print style of rulings. But even fixing the simple stuff would be nice.

With the caster level example "caster level" means two entirely different things, your levels in a spellcasting class, and your spell casting ability that includes buffs and debuffs. Generally no one has paid much attention to the ambiguous term, save for 3.0s Archmage and 3.5's Ur-Priest, but that was for double spellcasting advancement and unlimited cl loops.

The ability to cast 2nd level spells gets debated all the time so people can take reserve feats or enter PrCs at the 1st level despite Precocious Apprentice losing the original benefit in exchange for a 2nd level spell slot when you can cast 2nd level spells.

Theres this argument over the meaning "bonus feat" (which isn't even defined in the glossery btw) for epic feats at the tenth level.

When runestaffs came out people used the example text of a rogue using UMD to spend a nonexistent turning use for people to UMD runestaffs to cast all the cool spells for free.

Theres dozens of examples beyond those, and it would have taken very little effort to clarify them yet WotC refused to. Hell I would have done it for free if they let me.

Edit - Forgot the meaning of true dragon. Kobolds do not gain abilities as they age even remotely like true dragons do but since true dragon is so loosely defined theres people saying kobolds can take epic feats at the 1st level.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 08:40:51 PM by SorO_Lost »
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

EjoThims

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Re: Fridge Logic and You
« Reply #82 on: July 29, 2009, 07:40:28 AM »
but since true dragon is so loosely defined theres people saying kobolds can take epic feats at the 1st level.

And they can, precisely because true dragon is so loosely defined, but what a true dragon gets is very explicit.

And the PHB/MM primary source thing is a red herring. All it leads to is two different rule sets, which we know is neither the goal nor the execution in 3.5.