Author Topic: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting  (Read 19524 times)

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Nuntius Mortis

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #100 on: July 12, 2009, 09:36:29 PM »
Quote
@All
Vinom has asked me if he can gestalt two Tier 4 classes with a Tier 5 class. I don't mind, but I also don't know which classes he wants, yet. Does anyone have an objection to this? I never really considered what "tier" of play we might be in until now. Does anyone have any questions or comments on this?

I object. The thing with gestalt is: actions are still your most valuable commodity. Taking three classes, each with passive abilities that require no action, or stack with one another, is just adding extra stuff on top of extra stuff for no cost.

Yeah, but when someone chooses to play himself in the low tiers (4 and 5) he could need those extra stuff on top of extra stuff. After all, balance between the PCs is what matters most. And because we already have a cleric (tier 1) the ones that are on the lower tiers (namely, the non-spellcasters) could need that kind of boost.

So, personally, I do not have an objection.
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dither

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #101 on: July 12, 2009, 09:56:45 PM »
I object. The thing with gestalt is: actions are still your most valuable commodity. Taking three classes, each with passive abilities that require no action, or stack with one another, is just adding extra stuff on top of extra stuff for no cost.


Yeah, but when someone chooses to play himself in the low tiers (4 and 5) he could need those extra stuff on top of extra stuff. After all, balance between the PCs is what matters most. And because we already have a cleric (tier 1) the ones that are on the lower tiers (namely, the non-spellcasters) could need that kind of boost.

So, personally, I do not have an objection.

Looking at the classes Vinom's chosen -- paladin, scout, and dragonfire adept, it'd seem like he were going for a full base attack bonus, tons of skills, trapfinding, skirmish, and all good saves. The breath weapon of the dragonfire adept and the invocations generally can't be used in the same turn.

However, the prospect of bringing the tiered multiclassing adds yet another degree of complexity that I'm not really comfortable with on top of what we've already got. I'd say no unless a significant number of other characters were low-tiers and more than one person could benefit from it.
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Vinom

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #102 on: July 12, 2009, 10:10:36 PM »
I object. The thing with gestalt is: actions are still your most valuable commodity. Taking three classes, each with passive abilities that require no action, or stack with one another, is just adding extra stuff on top of extra stuff for no cost.


Yeah, but when someone chooses to play himself in the low tiers (4 and 5) he could need those extra stuff on top of extra stuff. After all, balance between the PCs is what matters most. And because we already have a cleric (tier 1) the ones that are on the lower tiers (namely, the non-spellcasters) could need that kind of boost.

So, personally, I do not have an objection.

Looking at the classes Vinom's chosen -- paladin, scout, and dragonfire adept, it'd seem like he were going for a full base attack bonus, tons of skills, trapfinding, skirmish, and all good saves. The breath weapon of the dragonfire adept and the invocations generally can't be used in the same turn.

However, the prospect of bringing the tiered multiclassing adds yet another degree of complexity that I'm not really comfortable with on top of what we've already got. I'd say no unless a significant number of other characters were low-tiers and more than one person could benefit from it.
Is that a no to me, or no to multiclassing  ???
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

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bogsnes

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #103 on: July 13, 2009, 07:46:00 AM »
It's a 3 level PrC, so I really don't have to qualify before third level, but now I can do it at second level (which means maximised empowered arrow of dusk at third level :D )

Nuntius Mortis

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #104 on: July 13, 2009, 08:12:54 PM »
A kind of irrelevant question but what's the time frame, in which we operate in? And I don't mean the time that the game would take place but the actual time that we're going to play it. For example, according to the site it's 6:11. But is it after midnight or evening? In Greece, it's 1:11 after midnight so I want to be sure that I won't be confused by the time.
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dither

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #105 on: July 13, 2009, 08:17:32 PM »
Is that a no to me, or no to multiclassing  ???

That's a 'no' to gestalting 3 classes simultaneously, which is what I think your request was.


A kind of irrelevant question but what's the time frame, in which we operate in? And I don't mean the time that the game would take place but the actual time that we're going to play it. For example, according to the site it's 6:11. But is it after midnight or evening? In Greece, it's 1:11 after midnight so I want to be sure that I won't be confused by the time.

I operate on MST, which is GMT-7; my posting hours are typically between 8 AM and 4 PM, primarily in the first two hours, which sporadic posting throughout the rest of the time, depending on how busy I am at work. I rarely post much once I get home because I reserve that time for things that I can only do while I'm at home.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 08:28:55 PM by dither »
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Dither's Amazing Changing Avatars

[spoiler]
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"Vegeta! What does the scouter say about Dither's power level?"
It's over nine thousand!

Quote from: Bauglir
Quote from: Anklebite
Quote from: dither
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A SECTION OF THE CAVERN HAS COLLAPSED!
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Vinom

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #106 on: July 14, 2009, 12:54:40 AM »
Is that a no to me, or no to multiclassing  ???
That's a 'no' to gestalting 3 classes simultaneously, which is what I think your request was.
Ok, no to find a way not to be dwarfed compaired to a wendigo sniper with 30 Dex....
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

Quote from:  Sarda the Sage
You're a quick thinker and spiteful, I can respect that. You won't be killed, Bikke

Never trust a smiling laughing chuckling grinning emotionless drunk, you know what Never Trust a DM!

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature

Pulling off Pun-pun in 26 rounds

N00bs, because all gamers have to start somewhere

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!"

Remember, Mobs are at least as stupid as their dumbest member.

Nuntius Mortis

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #107 on: July 14, 2009, 01:39:10 AM »
Ok, no to find a way not to be dwarfed compaired to a wendigo sniper with 30 Dex....

There are several ways to reach a high stat score. From what I remember you wanted to play a Cleric at the beginning. So, choose a race with a good Wis bonus. Search the D&D Wiki for races and ask dither if he's ok with you using some of those races. For example, a Denizen of Twilight is perfect for a cleric (+10 Wis, -2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Cha, Outsiders, +2 LA and two Racial HD, favourite class is cleric). Or play a Lumi if you want something not homebrewed (also +2 LA and 2 HD but lots of immunities with boosts in Str and Con and a penalty only to Dex, although less Wis bonus). Then choose a template that also boosts Wis. Or really, just play a Marrulurk which gives +6 Wis plus a lot of other boosts (thus, reducing the need for a high point buy and lets you concentrate more on templates) at LA +1. If you don't like LA drop all its Special Abilities and Special Qualities and see if you could get it for LA +0. You could always use the initiate feats presented in PGTF that could add 1 extra spell per level and some extra abilities (if accepted by dither of course).

Or just play a cleric//druid. As a caster, believe me, you would be most powerful than my character and all others combined. I'm just great at sneaking and doing ranged attacks. I do not have any specific advantage over undead (as a cleric has) nor do I have as many tricks as a cleric, a wizard or a druid have.
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Vinom

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #108 on: July 14, 2009, 02:19:17 AM »
Ok, no to find a way not to be dwarfed compaired to a wendigo sniper with 30 Dex....

There are several ways to reach a high stat score. From what I remember you wanted to play a Cleric at the beginning.
I wanted to splash a level of cleric in order to create a dragoon esk build, it wouldn't work for E6...

I'll try and create something that won't be squished against the wall by anything that remotely challanges you...
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

Quote from:  Sarda the Sage
You're a quick thinker and spiteful, I can respect that. You won't be killed, Bikke

Never trust a smiling laughing chuckling grinning emotionless drunk, you know what Never Trust a DM!

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature

Pulling off Pun-pun in 26 rounds

N00bs, because all gamers have to start somewhere

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!"

Remember, Mobs are at least as stupid as their dumbest member.

Nuntius Mortis

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #109 on: July 14, 2009, 02:24:12 AM »
I'll try and create something that won't be squished against the wall by anything that remotely challanges you...

Which include pretty much any enemy spellcaster who can easily ignore my AC by casting a spell that doesn't require an attack but a Save (I indeed have good Saves but even if I don't fail the check I'll take half damage, spells that deal fire damage excluded) or by casting buffs like True Strike on them  :P
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Nuntius Mortis

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #110 on: July 14, 2009, 02:31:04 AM »
I operate on MST, which is GMT-7; my posting hours are typically between 8 AM and 4 PM, primarily in the first two hours, which sporadic posting throughout the rest of the time, depending on how busy I am at work. I rarely post much once I get home because I reserve that time for things that I can only do while I'm at home.

I operate on UTC +2, which I guess is GMT +2.
Never underestimate a halfling!

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dither

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #111 on: July 14, 2009, 12:18:39 PM »
Waitwaitwait, I think our game of 3, maybe 4 just dropped to 2, maybe 3. Shame on me for not paying more attention.

I think it might be a good idea to figure out who's still interested in playing. I have a feeling that I may have let things get out of hand ... more than a little.
"Stuck between a rogue and a bard place."

vanity
Read my webcomic!
Dither's Amazing Changing Avatars

[spoiler]
Quote from: Shadowhunter
Quote from: Flay Crimsonwind
"Vegeta! What does the scouter say about Dither's power level?"
It's over nine thousand!

Quote from: Bauglir
Quote from: Anklebite
Quote from: dither
Well blow me down! :P
A SECTION OF THE CAVERN HAS COLLAPSED!
dither, Miner, has died after colliding with an obstacle!
[/spoiler]

Nuntius Mortis

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #112 on: July 14, 2009, 01:03:08 PM »
Soda, Caelic and mans0011 have voiced in interest in playing but they still haven't posted in any of the threads. Generic_PC will also join later. I think that it'd be good to tell to Lim Dul to join as he wants to play in a PbP Game and we certainly need a player in order to be 5 (if Soda, Caelic and mans0011 won't enter).

I'd also prefer ernharn and Surreal to re-enter the game but it's their own business.

PS: Also, as I said in the other thread because Surreal and ernharn said that the reason that they left the game was my player, feel free to kick me out of the game or veto my player, dither.
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dither

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #113 on: July 14, 2009, 01:27:34 PM »
PS: Also, as I said in the other thread because Surreal and ernharn said that the reason that they left the game was my player, feel free to kick me out of the game or veto my player, dither.

Well, truth be told, as much as I want to run an E6 game, I'm starting to feel that it'd be more fun to run Diablo 2 as a 4e game instead. I don't know how this can/would/does effect everyone here, but I'm thinking that this game might've done better remaining a discussion thread for a while longer.
"Stuck between a rogue and a bard place."

vanity
Read my webcomic!
Dither's Amazing Changing Avatars

[spoiler]
Quote from: Shadowhunter
Quote from: Flay Crimsonwind
"Vegeta! What does the scouter say about Dither's power level?"
It's over nine thousand!

Quote from: Bauglir
Quote from: Anklebite
Quote from: dither
Well blow me down! :P
A SECTION OF THE CAVERN HAS COLLAPSED!
dither, Miner, has died after colliding with an obstacle!
[/spoiler]

bogsnes

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #114 on: July 14, 2009, 04:48:35 PM »
I don't think I'll play in 4e, then (too bad as it looked very fun to play...)

Generic_PC

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #115 on: July 20, 2009, 02:39:16 AM »
I, unfortunately, would basically need to be shown how to play in 4e after 3rd level. I understand litle of it, probably because I grasp the whole idea of it badly.

I'd prefer to play E6, actually, even if it means shifting out of the Diablo setting.
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bogsnes

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #116 on: July 21, 2009, 02:55:39 PM »
So, how will it be, E6 or 4e?

dither

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #117 on: July 21, 2009, 04:09:58 PM »
So, how will it be, E6 or 4e?

That's a damned good question. I think it needs to start with the question: "what would be fun?"

First of all, the question I can't answer by myself: what do the players think would be fun?

Second, the question I CAN answer by myself: what do I think would be fun?
  • I think it would be fun to play in the Diablo 2 setting -- to run a game in the Diablo 2 setting. This means a fair amount of dark, gritty fantasy. The PCs are all humans because the setting emphasizes the loneliness mankind faces in the struggle against the unrelenting tide of Darkness -- humans are alone in the cosmology, having been abandoned by Heaven, they're preyed upon by Hell. Not only that, but humans are divided as a race, with different nations warring with each other, they're like a pack of rabid, scavenging dogs.
  • I think it would be fun to build monsters for the Diablo 2 setting without having to commit lots of thought to balance and design theory. There's a lot that can be done with a tabletop game that can't be done with PC game at the tactical and strategic level.
  • I think it would be fun to run a game where there wasn't a lot of individual worry about optimizing characters or pushing them to the limits -- this is why I suggested E6 to begin with. I believe optimization is neither a good thing nor a bad thing. Optimization is important because it realizes that the game system is inherently flawed, despite the best intentions, and tries to make up for it. I appreciate players who are level-headed but I'm discouraged by heavy levels of optimization because I've never been all that good at it myself.

Now, here's where my head has been the last couple days: "4e6". Fourth Edition was built with the idea of a party taking on multiple similarly-powered enemies simultaneously. It was also built with the idea of making combat encounters dynamic without changing too much of the basics over the course of 30 levels. Mostly "effects just get bigger to compete with rising hit point totals" seems to be the idea. Now, I don't like the idea of committing to learning 4e. I just want to try it and see if some of the stuff works the way I imagine it does. I think I could stand the first 6 levels, though.

What does 6th level mean in 4e? 2 at-will powers, 2 encounter powers, 2 daily powers, 2 utility powers, and 4 feats.

From the DM's standpoint, I look at 4e and it says this to me:
  • Use a number of monsters equal to the number of players.
  • Designing appropriate monsters is easier.
  • Monsters can be within one level of the party without making too big a splash.
  • Interesting encounters are easier to design.
  • Scaling monsters to different challenge levels is easier. (Hey! Zombies again! Wait ... these ones are on fire!)
  • Action points seem pretty cool.
  • Each member of the party becomes exhausted at about the same time -- when everyone's run out of dailies and healing surges.
  • Fewer skills to take into account when designing noncombat encounters.

...

Anyway, I have a feeling that expressing these feelings probably signed the death warrant on this game.
"Stuck between a rogue and a bard place."

vanity
Read my webcomic!
Dither's Amazing Changing Avatars

[spoiler]
Quote from: Shadowhunter
Quote from: Flay Crimsonwind
"Vegeta! What does the scouter say about Dither's power level?"
It's over nine thousand!

Quote from: Bauglir
Quote from: Anklebite
Quote from: dither
Well blow me down! :P
A SECTION OF THE CAVERN HAS COLLAPSED!
dither, Miner, has died after colliding with an obstacle!
[/spoiler]

bogsnes

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #118 on: July 21, 2009, 04:13:55 PM »
I won't join in 4e6 still, but from what I've seen it is enough players to do without me...

So yeah...

Vinom

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Re: [OOC] Character Creation and Setting
« Reply #119 on: July 21, 2009, 04:16:37 PM »
I haven't had a chance to play a serious 4e or e6 game... but I don't think both would work...
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

Quote from:  Sarda the Sage
You're a quick thinker and spiteful, I can respect that. You won't be killed, Bikke

Never trust a smiling laughing chuckling grinning emotionless drunk, you know what Never Trust a DM!

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature

Pulling off Pun-pun in 26 rounds

N00bs, because all gamers have to start somewhere

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!"

Remember, Mobs are at least as stupid as their dumbest member.