Author Topic: Casters  (Read 3057 times)

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DetectiveJabsco

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Casters
« on: May 31, 2008, 06:16:57 PM »
So now that we have had some time to read up on 4e. Are casters still the only class worth playing?

I would say at this point from what i have read i would think, there still a slightly better choice.
But when looking at the grand schema of things i would say its not going to kill you if you play a
Martial Class.

What do you all think

Lost_Scholar

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Re: Casters
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2008, 06:40:16 PM »
With just a general perusal of the PHB, I'd say that non-casters are much more viable to play in this edition than previously. To be sure, casters get some neat trick and access to rituals easier, but it's a bit to early for me to make a decisive call on whether casters are still more advantageous to play.
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brislove

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Re: Casters
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2008, 06:59:02 PM »
Short answer, No.

Caster's are still good, they have range and target defenses, but defenses aren't always lower then AC. they are automatically a couple points behind on the to-hit rolls because they don't have implement proficiency.

Honestly I think the classes are pretty well balanced. I am interested in doing a warlock/wizard with paragon multi-classing, as I expect it would be a freaking beast. high damage striking, with a decent hint of AoE minion slaying/controlling. 

Ieniemienie

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Re: Casters
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2008, 07:07:01 PM »
Casters now have to cast rituals with minimum 10minutes... so no combat rituals there... on top of it all they ALL cost GP and are based on some knowledge skill (Arcana, nature, dungeoneering, history) which make it even less appealing
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DaveTheMagicWeasel

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Re: Casters
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2008, 08:17:45 PM »
I'm actually thinking that Leaders might be the new GOD classes.  There seems to be precious few other ways to bump up attack rolls and the like, so the Leader seems to the best way to effect the cost spent overcoming an encounter.

Dan2

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Re: Casters
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2008, 10:16:17 PM »
I'm sure that casters are still going to be really good.  The only problem I see is a lack of control-ish spells that actually last.

Web and the wall spells are a very nice exception, but the sustain spells and -until end/start of your next turn spells are just a little bit too short for me...

But, it also seems to me that control has been spread among the party.  All of the classes seem to have powers that move/slide/push/teleport the enemy and/or themselves.

I'm sure it's been said before, but I'm pretty sure that party cooperation is going to be key in this edition.

Have the wizard make a nice, control, (maybe damaging) area, and have the party move people into it, or keep them from moving out of it...

The only real concern I have for casters sucking in this edition was mentioned by brislove, in that casters don't have attack roll bonuses to count on like weapon proficiencies.  All they have are ability mod and magic implements... :'(

X-Codes

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Re: Casters
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2008, 11:15:55 PM »
...and they much more commonly attack an enemy's Fort/Ref/Will defenses, which is often lower than their AC.

MittenNinja

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Re: Casters
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2008, 09:53:02 AM »
I'm actually thinking that Leaders might be the new GOD classes.  There seems to be precious few other ways to bump up attack rolls and the like, so the Leader seems to the best way to effect the cost spent overcoming an encounter.

+1

The warlord in the group I'm DMing has so far easily been the MVP for the group.

brislove

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Re: Casters
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2008, 08:17:40 PM »
...and they much more commonly attack an enemy's Fort/Ref/Will defenses, which is often lower than their AC.

but not always. a lot of the big bruiser types have a higher fort def than AC actually. Wizards need to have varied striking options, that was the intent of my statement, if they can attack all 3 defenses, they shouldn't have any problems hitting.

Treantmonklvl20

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Re: Casters
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2008, 05:37:31 AM »
I think all classes are far more pigeonholed into their roles than they were in 3.5.

Therefore, I don't expect to see many melee wizards out there, or Clerics who outfight fighters.

So as long as the martial classes are the best at fighting (they are) then they are worth playing.

Comparing who is more powerful now - when you cross the lines of role - is like discussing which tastes better - chocolate or steak (The answer depends on mood and preference - but the correct answer is always chocolate.  :wink)
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AlienFromBeyond

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Re: Casters
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2008, 08:16:43 AM »
I'm actually thinking that Leaders might be the new GOD classes.  There seems to be precious few other ways to bump up attack rolls and the like, so the Leader seems to the best way to effect the cost spent overcoming an encounter.

+1

The warlord in the group I'm DMing has so far easily been the MVP for the group.
Aye, Furious Smash is ridiculous as an At-Will. +Cha mod to damage and hit for an ally? YES PLEASE.

jameswilliamogle

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Re: Casters
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2008, 03:10:52 AM »
Therefore, I don't expect to see many melee wizards out there, or Clerics who outfight fighters.
Oh, I don't know... That Eladrin Soldier feat seems to open up some options...

Treantmonklvl20

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Re: Casters
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2008, 04:10:01 AM »
Therefore, I don't expect to see many melee wizards out there, or Clerics who outfight fighters.
Oh, I don't know... That Eladrin Soldier feat seems to open up some options...

I think I need to revise the statement - as mentioned - Eladrin Soldier - mixed with Wizard of the Spiral Tower - the Eladrin is using a longsword to attack, but attacks are based off INT, damage is based off INT, and there are some nice secondary effects.

However - I don't think we will see many wizard DEFENDERS...Better?
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jameswilliamogle

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Re: Casters
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2008, 04:55:17 AM »
I agree w/ that completely :)

edit: even then, I'm not so sure... unless you are talking about blockers, I guess.  Wizards get some pretty awesome defensive buffs, and those immediate action "counters" are pretty killer.

The one thing I think thats preventing it is the lack of really great offensive buffs.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 04:58:10 AM by jameswilliamogle »

heffroncm

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Re: Casters
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2008, 01:09:33 PM »
I don't think you'll see many Wizard base-class defenders, but a Fighter with all the Wizard multiclassing he can get has potential.  Being able to mark the entire freaking battle every turn has to count for something.

Squash Monster

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Re: Casters
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2008, 10:21:55 PM »
I never noticed that you can use wizard AOE spells to mark everything, nice find.  You could take Scorching Burst as an encounter power with Arcane Initiate, which is pretty good at level 1.  It's a shame you have to wait until level 10 to get Sleep, though; marking everything you hit with that is just perfect.

tarbrush

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Re: Casters
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2008, 12:50:52 AM »
Therefore, I don't expect to see many melee wizards out there, or Clerics who outfight fighters.
Oh, I don't know... That Eladrin Soldier feat seems to open up some options...

I think I need to revise the statement - as mentioned - Eladrin Soldier - mixed with Wizard of the Spiral Tower - the Eladrin is using a longsword to attack, but attacks are based off INT, damage is based off INT, and there are some nice secondary effects.

However - I don't think we will see many wizard DEFENDERS...Better?

Wizard of the Spiral Tower seems pointless as a multiclass option, cause you need Implement Mastery to make use of the longsword trick, and IM being a class feature, you can't get it except by being a wizard.  And the rest of the class seems meh.

Treantmonklvl20

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Re: Casters
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2008, 05:00:11 AM »
Therefore, I don't expect to see many melee wizards out there, or Clerics who outfight fighters.
Oh, I don't know... That Eladrin Soldier feat seems to open up some options...

I think I need to revise the statement - as mentioned - Eladrin Soldier - mixed with Wizard of the Spiral Tower - the Eladrin is using a longsword to attack, but attacks are based off INT, damage is based off INT, and there are some nice secondary effects.

However - I don't think we will see many wizard DEFENDERS...Better?

Wizard of the Spiral Tower seems pointless as a multiclass option, cause you need Implement Mastery to make use of the longsword trick, and IM being a class feature, you can't get it except by being a wizard.  And the rest of the class seems meh.

Nobody was suggesting multiclassing to my knowledge.

Straight wizard - wizard of the spiral tower.
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tarbrush

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Re: Casters
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2008, 09:16:35 AM »
Ah, my mistake.

chibishuffle

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Re: Casters
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2008, 04:15:44 PM »
One thing I am extremely happy about is that the casters no longer have that single spell that can replace another class for example divine power and polymorph.  Im glad that the roles are better defined and that martial characters don't become useless at high levels.   The countdown to level 7 is gone.  In 3.x the paladin. barbarian and fighter become pointless as of level 7 when divine power and polymorph appear for casters. Im also looking forward to playing my paladin beyond level 6 :)
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