Author Topic: Why Tier 2s are Tier 2s  (Read 40675 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

lans

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 886
    • Email
Re: Why Tier 2s are Tier 2s
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2011, 08:35:38 AM »
Sword sage has a broken combo that leads to him knowing any spell he wants for a standard action that debatedly ups him to tier 1
Skill prodigy from Kingdoms of Kalamar

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: Why Tier 2s are Tier 2s
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2011, 05:23:08 PM »
Arcane swordsage has an incomplete writeup, so it isn't really a class per se, just a rough idea for one.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

oslecamo

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1940
Re: Why Tier 2s are Tier 2s
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2011, 05:34:48 PM »
Arcane swordsage has an incomplete writeup, so it isn't really a class per se, just a rough idea for one.

A lot of other combos have been acepted around the forums with just as "incomplete" material. If instead of the swordsage, it was an ability to allow wizards to recharge spells as if they were maneuvers in some other splatbook(whitout directly calling it maneuvers of course), it would be brought in every other "rofl casters rule!" discussion, people would be doing builds around it every week, and would be pointed out an option for when you want to make the rest of the group cry.

But since it's in precious ToB, suddenly everybody uses common sense and agrees the writers were drinking something too strong when they wrote that option.

Doubly because the unarmed swordsage, that's just above the arcane swordsage, is just as "incomplete", but nobody has any problem admiting it's there.

snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: Why Tier 2s are Tier 2s
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2011, 05:39:50 PM »
Actually, I think people don't touch it because it was too vague.  It leaves a lot of questions unanswered (do they still incur ASF?  Do they still require components?  Are they recovered the same as manuvers or is there actually a per-day limit on this like with real spellcasters?)

Unarmed Swordsage, on the other hand, is very clear.  Remove Light Armor proficiency, gain the Monk's Unarmed Strike ability.  Done and clear as air.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 05:41:24 PM by snakeman830 »
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

oslecamo

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1940
Re: Why Tier 2s are Tier 2s
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2011, 05:42:49 PM »
Actually, I think people don't touch it because it was too vague.  It leaves a lot of questions unanswered (do they still incur ASF?  Do they still require components?  Are they recovered the same as manuvers or is there actually a per-day limit on this like with real spellcasters?)

It's not vague. It says right there they're cast as maneuvers. That leaves just somatic components for you to worry about (as you still need to move to use maneuvers). Broken as hell, but when's a psion/wizard pulling it out, everybody cheers.
Unarmed Swordsage, on the other hand, is very clear.  Remove Light Armor proficiency, gain the Monk's Unarmed Strike ability.  Done and clear as air.
And then you notice the swordsage doesn't get extra AC while unarmored. :smirk

snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: Why Tier 2s are Tier 2s
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2011, 05:47:31 PM »
Actually, I think people don't touch it because it was too vague.  It leaves a lot of questions unanswered (do they still incur ASF?  Do they still require components?  Are they recovered the same as manuvers or is there actually a per-day limit on this like with real spellcasters?)

It's not vague. It says right there they're cast as maneuvers. That leaves just somatic components for you to worry about (as you still need to move to use maneuvers). Broken as hell, but when's a psion/wizard pulling it out, everybody cheers.
Unarmed Swordsage, on the other hand, is very clear.  Remove Light Armor proficiency, gain the Monk's Unarmed Strike ability.  Done and clear as air.
And then you notice the swordsage doesn't get extra AC while unarmored. :smirk
Okay, does the spell still allow SR if it did before?  Manuvers never do because they're all either Su or Ex, but this is now a spell we're talking about.  This makes a very, ver important change to how it gets played.  How about caster level?  One would assume you use Initiator Level instead, but do caster level boosters work for it?  How are save DC's calculated?

This is why I say it is too vague to use.

As for the Unarmored AC, nothing is stopping you from wearing light armor anyway as an Unarmed Swordsage.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 05:52:21 PM by snakeman830 »
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Esgath

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
Re: Why Tier 2s are Tier 2s
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2011, 05:49:23 PM »
And what is the casting stat? :)