Author Topic: Why Tier 3s are in Tier 3, #2 of 2  (Read 41098 times)

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Midnight_v

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Re: Why Tier 3s are in Tier 3, #2 of 2
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2011, 09:07:52 PM »

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A note on the Warblade: Warblades are tier 3 only because 9th level spells are better than the rule books and not because the monster manuals are packed full of monsters that can kill them. Being the horseman War is great and all, but it will always be second best to being a god. -SorO_Lost
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Jackinthegreen

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Re: Why Tier 3s are in Tier 3, #2 of 2
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2011, 09:33:23 AM »
To be honest, I'd argue that the Factotum is Tier 2 actually.  Why? Innate access to Divine Metamagic, and if built right actually has more uses of Turn/Rebuke Undead than a Cleric of the same level.

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Re: Why Tier 3s are in Tier 3, #2 of 2
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2011, 10:52:52 AM »
To be honest, I'd argue that the Factotum is Tier 2 actually.  Why? Innate access to Divine Metamagic, and if built right actually has more uses of Turn/Rebuke Undead than a Cleric of the same level.
And no divine spells.
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Midnight_v

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Re: Why Tier 3s are in Tier 3, #2 of 2
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2011, 11:12:33 AM »
To be honest, I'd argue that the Factotum is Tier 2 actually.  Why? Innate access to Divine Metamagic, and if built right actually has more uses of Turn/Rebuke Undead than a Cleric of the same level.
And no divine spells.
That is to say... its where its supposed to be. Lots of thought has gone into this, tier thing round here. Not a lot has been missed though.
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JaronK

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Re: Why Tier 3s are in Tier 3, #2 of 2
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2011, 04:59:52 PM »
To be honest, I'd argue that the Factotum is Tier 2 actually.  Why? Innate access to Divine Metamagic, and if built right actually has more uses of Turn/Rebuke Undead than a Cleric of the same level.

You need Divine Spells to use DMM.  Also, the reduced available spell levels really does keep him down a bit more compared to the big boys.  Factotums are certainly a potent class, but metamagic abuse isn't something they do well.

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Why Tier 3s are in Tier 3, #2 of 2
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2011, 06:23:10 PM »
To be honest, I'd argue that the Factotum is Tier 2 actually.  Why? Innate access to Divine Metamagic, and if built right actually has more uses of Turn/Rebuke Undead than a Cleric of the same level.

You need Divine Spells to use DMM.  Also, the reduced available spell levels really does keep him down a bit more compared to the big boys.  Factotums are certainly a potent class, but metamagic abuse isn't something they do well.

JaronK
They can, however, abuse SLA feats like Quicken.
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Tr011

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Re: Why Tier 3s are in Tier 3, #2 of 2
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2011, 10:36:32 PM »
The sudden ones are not really great, it's 1/day get an extra spell w/o action, but yet another font of inspiration would do more than the same (get more than +4 IP and thus more than 1/day extra cast). Or did I miss something?

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Why Tier 3s are in Tier 3, #2 of 2
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2011, 10:37:47 PM »
And don't forget that all SLAs are standard actions unless specified otherwise.

Even things with casting times of a day or more.
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JaronK

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Re: Why Tier 3s are in Tier 3, #2 of 2
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2011, 06:02:29 PM »
And don't forget that all SLAs are standard actions unless specified otherwise.

Even things with casting times of a day or more.

Ghoul Glyph, Minor Creation, and Major Creation are insane because of this.  I can't think of any spells with a day or more cast time that are impressive in this respect though, offhand.

And yeah, Quicken Spell Like Ability is quite good for a very high level Factotum.  At lower levels, less so.

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