Author Topic: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"  (Read 21887 times)

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KellKheraptis

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #100 on: July 15, 2009, 02:42:41 AM »
Here's one for you : How would Boccob's Reading Room interact with a Spell to Power Erudite?  Theoretically (and practically, having played one) they have even greater potential than an archivist for spell versatility, and depending on the world they are on, work just fine in an AMF (FR comes to mind, though I think most others it fries their manifesting as surely as a wizard's).  Only problem is all my psionic stuff is unavailable atm, other than d20srd online and CPsi.  I also tend to use Hyperconcious and all of that author's work (he was one of the main authors of both XPH and CPsi), if nothing else because it's the only real support they received.  Barring that, however, anyone know of some really nice Psionic or Psionically reflavorable PrC's?  I would just love to see a Psicantatrix >.>
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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #101 on: July 21, 2009, 07:13:31 AM »
Also, I thought it was hashed out somewhere about arcane prestige classes not progressing divine casting classes or something along those lines?

All of my research on the topic has led me to one conclusion: what defines a spellcaster is the source of his magic. A divine spellcaster is so not because his spells are divine spells, but because he derives his spellcasting power from a deity (or other divine source). This is drawn from the PHB, pg. 179. Using, for example, a dragonsblood pool (which is not, as far as I know a divine source) to gain access to an arcane spell makes you, for all intents and purposes, an arcane spellcaster. This is because all magic that is not derived from a divine source is arcane, unless stated otherwise (such as with the artificer's infusions).

Quote
If said distinction exists, I'd love to see it (and so would Doc Rock, as it would frag his Algernon build).

Algernon is actually safe, since it relies on the dragonsblood pool. I think alternate source spell would also be safe, depending on the wording. I know that southern magician is not, because it doesn't alter the source of your magic, only the nature of it as it is cast. It'll get you into things which require you to cast divine/arcane spells, but it won't make you a divine or arcane spellcaster if you're not already.

It's wonky, I know, but the only logical way to interpret the PHB's sections on arcane and divine magic.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #102 on: July 21, 2009, 07:19:15 AM »
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KellKheraptis

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #103 on: July 26, 2009, 03:05:26 AM »
After letting this topic get a little sidetracked, I want now to outline what I would consider the goals of this build to be and how they have been fulfilled thus far :

1. Uncanny Forethought : Pretty well subsumed by #2
2. NI Spell Mastery : Profession (Diplomat) 4 ranks, full spontaneous spell capability
3. Chain/Reach trick for offensive tapestry/replacement for War Weaver : Ton of feats to throw at it can do this for these two, and we get autoquicken from arcane spellsurge
4. Embrace/Shun shenanigans on tap 24/7 : All recharge methods notwithstanding (since we can really do that anyway with a crafted contingent spell to whisk us to a timeless plane to regen spells)
5. Mirror Move if it's allowed : Assuming it is...
6. Able to cast in an AMF or dispose of the annoying AMF : Iron Heart Surge, preferably built in.
7. No loss of caster levels (unless it is absolutely fucking godly) : Felt the need to narrow it down.
8. Ocular Spell for the Persistification Tango : Built in if possible, if not, oh well.
9. Supernatural Spell or it's equivalent, while not violating #7 if at all possible
10. Aquire Familiar, since we've traded our base one, and this one will get a full 20 level progression, for another source of action abuse.

Incantatrix 3 is manditory IMO, and of course at least Wizard 1 to have something to base it all off of.  Haluran Elder dovetails nicely with 1 or 4 levels, as does one level of Archmage for Arcane Reach (though I'd rather spend feats instead of spell slots).  Hmm...Sacred Excorcist since we have umpteen feats available to abuse on Divine Feats?  Abjurant Champion maybe for it's defensive buffs and insta-BAB (not to mention the fuck you to SoD's on the offchance you got sloppy).  UM is still an option, as is Mindbender (pre-epic at least).  Before we hash out another build, I want to see what people consider to be "the" defining characteristics of the Ultimate Mage.  As in, if you wanted to build the god of tier one, what would you build? 

Hopefully this helps to refocus things.

~Kell

PS. And hopefully this snaps my mind out of the warmage build I had bouncing around, that was scrapped since there's no way to add the entire Sor/Wiz list to them :(
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KellKheraptis

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #104 on: August 19, 2009, 07:00:09 AM »
For the record, I did find a way to add the full Sor/Wiz list to a Warmage :P  But here it is, my final Ultimate Magus build.  I'll double check everything for consistency, but this build assumes full retraining capability, even though it shouldn't need it, and LA buyoff of +1 LA looong before level 20.

[spoiler]Venerable Dragonwraught White Dragonspawn Dragonborn Kobold Loredrake w/ Greater Draconic Rite of Passage
Wizard 1/Singer of Concordance 2/Ultimate Magus 10/Dweomerkeeper 4/Incantatrix 3

Wizard Casting : 20th, CL 24
Sorcerer Casting : 11th, CL 15

Feats
1st-Magical Training
3rd-Extend Spell
6th-Persistent Spell
8th-Quicken Spell
9th-Invisible Spell
12th-Chain Spell, Sanctum Spell
15th-Versatile Spellcaster
18th-Twin Spell, Arcane Manipulation

Extra Feats Used/Needed : Favored x2, Primary Contact x2, Epic Spellcasting, Obtain Familiar, Uncanny Forethought

Extra Feats Remaining : 48

507,000 gp available for gear.
[/spoiler]

Change metamagic to taste, or hell, throw one or more of the 48 extra feats at it and if you don't like it, you have the Dark Chaos Shuffle as a vanguard ability in your DC 5 zillion mythal that Dweomerkeeper made a Su for you :)  So there he is...Godzilla, the Ultimage.

EDIT : And yeah, needs the feat(s) for Kobolds to get into Greater Draconic Rite.  So 46-47 free feats.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 07:06:22 AM by KellKheraptis »
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Archmage Joda

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #105 on: August 19, 2009, 02:41:22 PM »
For the record, I did find a way to add the full Sor/Wiz list to a Warmage :P  

This just that sword of the arcane order feat, or have you found another way as well?
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #106 on: August 19, 2009, 04:39:10 PM »
Don't you need four levels of paladin/ranger for that?
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Archmage Joda

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #107 on: August 19, 2009, 04:53:57 PM »
The method I saw Kell use on gleemax was to have 4 levels of prestige paladin following rainbow servant in order to get the paladin spell list and qualify for that feat. I was just wondering if that's what was being referred to here or if Kell found another method as well.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #108 on: August 19, 2009, 05:20:12 PM »
The method I saw Kell use on gleemax was to have 4 levels of prestige paladin following rainbow servant in order to get the paladin spell list and qualify for that feat. I was just wondering if that's what was being referred to here or if Kell found another method as well.
Holy mother of... spontaneous casting of the wizard, cleric, and ranger/palladin lists? MADNESS!  :sparta
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #109 on: August 19, 2009, 05:37:15 PM »
No, win :D
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KellKheraptis

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #110 on: August 19, 2009, 06:03:19 PM »
No, win :D

The Warmage obsession ended up being as much Flawless Victory as my Mystic Ranger project (20 CL/20 BAB/9th Level spells).  But I would dare say Godzilla above would have a contingency in effect for either, or at least something useful in his epic spell mythal he got at 20th[/i] that would pretty much hose any chance of himself dying :P

Though that Warmage Batman would give him a healthy scare, and technically can probably pull the same trick (and really so could the Ranger, all things and available resources being equal).
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #111 on: August 19, 2009, 06:05:15 PM »
Are those builds posted in this thread as well?

I haven't gove over all the pages yet...
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KellKheraptis

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #112 on: August 19, 2009, 06:14:57 PM »
Are those builds posted in this thread as well?

I haven't gove over all the pages yet...

One close to the Kobold was.  That warmage and the ranger were only referenced because they were distracting me from the Ultimate Mage project on this thread, but also lead to one hell of a mage in their own right.
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #113 on: August 19, 2009, 06:26:49 PM »
Care to post some of the basics?

I'd check your thread over on Failmax, but that won't come online until the 26th...
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Archmage Joda

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #114 on: August 19, 2009, 07:30:28 PM »
What I recall it as being was starting with warmage, doing extremely early entry into rainbow servant (i.e. 1 level of warmage and then into RS), and then 4 levels of prestige paladin/ranger after that, taking the sword of the arcane order feat.

Gaining:
Warmage casting (default)
Cleric spell list (Rainbow Servant)
Paladin/Ranger spell list (Prestige Paladin/Ranger 1)
Wizard spell list (Prestige Paladin/Ranger 4 and Sword of the Arcane Order)
5 levels for other things (my personal favorite is Contemplative into Dweomerkeeper, but I think Kell used Incantatrix, Sacred Exorcist (for DMM), and Mindbender 1 for telepathy)
"My advanced brain is far too meaty to be swayed. Plus, it's practically dripping with genius sauce made from a special recipe of 11 herbs and spices" - Black Mage

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #115 on: August 19, 2009, 07:38:05 PM »
And how'd he get the spontaneous casting of the Sor/Wiz spells. SotAO only lets you prepare.
I know there are ways to do it, my mind's just drawing a blank right now :wall
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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #116 on: August 19, 2009, 07:49:11 PM »
And how'd he get the spontaneous casting of the Sor/Wiz spells. SotAO only lets you prepare.
I know there are ways to do it, my mind's just drawing a blank right now :wall
Uncanny forethought, I'd assume.

I suppose sacred exorcist was used to get turning.
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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #117 on: August 19, 2009, 07:55:36 PM »
And how'd he get the spontaneous casting of the Sor/Wiz spells. SotAO only lets you prepare.
I know there are ways to do it, my mind's just drawing a blank right now :wall
Uncanny forethought, I'd assume.

I suppose sacred exorcist was used to get turning.
Ah ofcourse :)

That only gets you so far though, are there any other ways to get more 'spontaneous' spells?
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #118 on: August 19, 2009, 08:01:19 PM »
And how'd he get the spontaneous casting of the Sor/Wiz spells. SotAO only lets you prepare.
I know there are ways to do it, my mind's just drawing a blank right now :wall
Uncanny forethought, I'd assume.

I suppose sacred exorcist was used to get turning.
Ah ofcourse :)

That only gets you so far though, are there any other ways to get more 'spontaneous' spells?
Well, you can always take seven levels of mage of the arcane order.
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Re: CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"
« Reply #119 on: August 19, 2009, 08:03:01 PM »
And how'd he get the spontaneous casting of the Sor/Wiz spells. SotAO only lets you prepare.
I know there are ways to do it, my mind's just drawing a blank right now :wall
Uncanny forethought, I'd assume.

I suppose sacred exorcist was used to get turning.
Ah ofcourse :)

That only gets you so far though, are there any other ways to get more 'spontaneous' spells?
Well... he's a warmage, and he's preparing his wizard spells in his warmage slots. So Versatile Spellcaster should work.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]