Author Topic: Batman/god Wizard orb controller  (Read 3997 times)

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brislove

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Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« on: May 31, 2008, 04:15:50 AM »
Here's god Broken down by level/tier. 1st/11th/21st/30th Lots of control powers

Heroic

[spoiler]Wizard (orb mastery) 1
Human

Stats:
8/12/10/20/13/11

Feats:
H: Burning Blizzard
1st: Improved initiative

Skills: Arcana, Diplomacy, Insight, Nature

At-will powers:
Ray of Frost
Thunder wave
Scorching Burst


Encounter powers:

1st: Icy Terrain

Daily Powers:

1st: Sleep/Flaming Sphere[/spoiler]

Paragon

[spoiler]Wizard (orb mastery) 10/ Blood mage 1
Human

Stats:
9/13/11/23/15/13

Feats:
H: Burning Blizzard
1st: Improved initiative
2nd: Human perseverance
4th: Armor Prof Leather (seems like 2 free AC, might be good enough to take at level 1)
6th: Toughness
8th: Jack of All Trades
10th: Skill Training: Religion-> Lasting Frost (retrained at 11th)
11th: Spell focus

Skills: Arcana, Diplomacy, Insight, Nature

At-will powers:
Ray of frost
Thunder wave
Scorching Burst


Encounter powers:
1st: Icy Terrain
3rd: Icy Rays
7th: Spectral Ram
11th: Blood pulse.


Daily Powers:

Utility:

2nd: Shield
6th: Dispel Magic
10th: Arcane gate[/spoiler]

Epic

[spoiler]Wizard (orb mastery) 10/ Blood mage 10/Archmage 1
Human

Stats:
10/14/12/26/18/14

Feats:
H: Burning Blizzard
1st: Improved initiative
2nd: Human perseverance
4th: Armor Prof Leather (seems like 2 free AC, might be good enough to take at level 1)
6th: Toughness
8th: Jack of All Trades -> Solid Sound (Retrained at 12th level)
10th: Skill Training: Religion-> Lasting Frost (retrained at 11th)
11th: Spell focus
12th: Second Implement (Staff)
14th: Resounding Thunder
16th: Point Blank Shot
18th: Uncanny Dodge -> Irresistible Flame
20th: Great Fortitude
21st: Spell Accuracy

Skills:
Arcana, Diplomacy, Insight, Nature

At-will powers:
Ray of frost
Thunder wave
Scorching Burst


Encounter powers:
7th: Spectral Ram
11th: Blood pulse [P]
13th: Frost Burn
17th: Crushing Titans Fist


Daily Powers:Utility:
2nd: Shield
6th: Dispel Magic
10th: Arcane gate
12th: Soul burn [P]
16th: Fly[/spoiler]

Epic level 30


[spoiler]Wizard (orb mastery) 10/ Blood mage 10/Archmage 10
Human

Stats:
10/14/12/28/20/14

Feats:

H: Burning Blizzard
1st: Improved initiative
2nd: Human perseverance
4th: Armor Prof Leather ->Danger sense at 13th
6th: Toughness
8th: Jack of All Trades -> Solid Sound (Retrained at 12th level)
10th: Skill Training: Religion-> Lasting Frost (retrained at 11th)
11th: Spell focus
12th: Second Implement (Staff)
14th: Resounding Thunder
16th: Point Blank Shot
18th: Uncanny Dodge -> Irresistible Flame (at 21st retrained)
20th: Great Fortitude
21st: Spell Accuracy
22nd: Epic Resurgence
24th: Uncanny Dodge
26th: Arcane Mastery
28th: Improved Second wind
30th: Fleet-Footed

Skills:
Arcana, Diplomacy, Insight, Nature

At-will powers:

Ray of frost
Thunder wave
Scorching Burst[/color]

Encounter powers:

11th: Blood pulse [P]
17th: Crushing Titans Fist
23rd: Thunder Clap
27th: Confusion


Daily Powers:
Utility:
2nd: Shield
6th: Dispel Magic
10th: Arcane gate
12th: Soul burn [P]
16th: Fly
22nd: Mass Fly
26th: [E] Shape Magic
[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 04:18:36 AM by brislove »

Dan2

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2008, 06:26:02 PM »
I'd actually like to post a different take on the God build, but I haven't finished up the powers just yet...

Interesting take on it, but I'd change a number of things.

Nice job!  :clap

Another take on GOD

Heroic Tier
[spoiler]
Level 1:
[spoiler]
Race: Eladrin

Stats:
Str: 8
Con: 10
Dex: 14
Int: 20
Wis: 12
Cha: 12

Skills:
Arcana
Dungeoneering
History
Nature
Religion

Feat:
Toughness

At-Will Powers:
Magic Missile / Ray of Frost
Thunderwave


Encounter Powers:
Fey Step
Icy Terrain


Spellbook:
[spoiler]
Daily attack spells:
Sleep
Freezing Cloud

[/spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Level 10:
Stats
Str: 8
Con: 10
Dex: 14
Int: 22
Wis: 14
Cha: 12

Feats:
Toughness
Improved Initiative
Expanded Spellbook
Jack of All Trades
Wintertouched
Alertness

Encounter Powers:
Fey Step
Icy Terrain
Icy Rays
Winter's Wrath


Spellbook
[spoiler]
Daily attack spells:
Level 1:
Sleep
Freezing Cloud
Flaming Sphere


Level 5:
Web
Stinking Cloud
Bigby's Icy Grasp


Level 9:
Wall of fire
Ice Storm
Lightning Serpent


Utility spells:
Level 2:
Expeditious Retreat
Shield


Level 6:
Wall of Fog
Invisibility


Level 10:
Arcane Gate
Blur

[/spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Paragon Tier:
[spoiler]
Level 11:
[spoiler]
Paragon Path: Spellstorm Mage

Stats
Str: 9
Con: 11
Dex: 15
Int: 23
Wis: 15
Cha: 13

Feats:
Toughness
Improved Initiative
Expanded Spellbook
Jack of All Trades
Wintertouched
Alertness
Spell Focus
Lingering Frost

At-Will Powers:
Magic Missile
Thunderwave
Ray of Frost


Encounter Powers:
Fey Step
Icy Terrain
Icy Rays
Winter's Wrath
Storm Cage[/color]
[/spoiler]

Level 20:
[spoiler]
Stats
Str: 9
Con: 11
Dex: 15
Int: 25
Wis: 17
Cha: 13

Feats:
Toughness
Improved Initiative
Expanded Spellbook
Jack of All Trades
Wintertouched
Alertness
Spell Focus
Lingering Frost
Second Implement (Wand)
Danger Sense
Arcane Reach
Combat Anticipation
Evasion
Feywild Protection

Encounter Powers:
Fey Step
Icy Terrain
Icy Rays
Winter's Wrath
Storm Cage
Thunderlance
Crushing Titan's Fist[/color]

Spellbook:
[spoiler]
Daily attack spells:
Level 1:
Sleep
Freezing Cloud
Flaming Sphere


Level 5:
Web
Stinking Cloud
Bigby's Icy Grasp


Level 9:
Wall of fire
Ice Storm
Lightning Serpent


Level 15:
Wall of Ice
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
Prismatic Beams


Level 19:
Evard's Black Tentacles
Cloudkill
Acid Wave


Level 20:
Maelstrom of Chaos


Utility Spells
Level 2:
Expeditious Retreat
Shield


Level 6:
Wall of Fog
Invisibility


Level 10:
Arcane Gate
Blur


Level 12:
Sudden Storm


Level 16:
Fly
Stoneskin

[/spoiler]
[/spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Epic Tier
[spoiler]
Level 21:
[spoiler]
Epic Destiny: Archmage

Stats:
Str: 10
Con: 12
Dex: 16
Int: 26
Wis: 18
Cha: 14

Feats:
Toughness
Improved Initiative
Expanded Spellbook
Jack of All Trades
Wintertouched
Alertness
Spell Focus
Lingering Frost
Second Implement (Wand)
Danger Sense
Arcane Reach
Combat Anticipation
Evasion
Feywild Protection
Arcane Mastery
[/spoiler]

Level 30:
[spoiler]
Stats:
Str: 10
Con: 12
Dex: 16
Int: 28
Wis: 20
Cha: 14

Feats:
Toughness
Improved Initiative
Expanded Spellbook
Jack of All Trades
Wintertouched
Alertness
Spell Focus
Lingering Frost
Second Implement (Wand)
Danger Sense
Arcane Reach
Combat Anticipation
Evasion
Feywild Protection
Arcane Mastery
Spell Accuracy
Epic Resurgence
Blind-Fight
Irresistible Flame
Font of Radiance

Encounter Powers:
Fey Step
Icy Terrain
Icy Rays
Winter's Wrath
Storm Cage
Thunderlance
(Note: I preferred Storm Cage to Thunderlance, but either is viable)
Crushing Titan's Fist
Acid Storm
Confusion


Spellbook:
[spoiler]
Daily attack spells:
Level 1:
Sleep
Freezing Cloud
Flaming Sphere


Level 5:
Web
Stinking Cloud
Bigby's Icy Grasp


Level 9:
Wall of fire
Ice Storm
Lightning Serpent


Level 15:
Wall of Ice
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
Prismatic Beams


Level 19:
Evard's Black Tentacles
Cloudkill
Acid Wave


Level 20:
Maelstrom of Chaos


Level 25:
Elemental Maw
Necrotic Web
Prismatic Spray


Level 29:
Legion's Hold
Greater Ice Storm
Meteor Swarm


Utility Spells
Level 2:
Expeditious Retreat
Shield


Level 6:
Wall of Fog
Invisibility


Level 10:
Arcane Gate
Blur


Level 12:
Sudden Storm


Level 16:
Fly
Stoneskin


Level 22:
Mass Fly
Time Stop


Level 26:
Shape Magic

[/spoiler]
[/spoiler]
[/spoiler]

The main differences revolve around Dex...
I used it to get a number of feats and I find the wand mastery ability a lot better than the staff mastery ability, especially considering the wizard's lack of accuracy-improving options.

The nice thing I've seen while doing this, is that at higher levels, nearly all of the abilities are worthwhile.  I had a very hard time choosing abilities on some of the levels (like 15 and 25).

Compare, contrast, examine, critique...
Suggestions?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2008, 11:00:31 PM by Dan2 »

brislove

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2008, 01:32:11 AM »
What would you change? I'm not sure on the feats, I grabbed some that looked reasonable. There are just so many to choose, I started grabbing things almost at random lol. I also just took the suggested skills for a control wizard, as I didn't care about them.

Are there any powers that you specifically dislike/think are bad?


Dan2

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2008, 11:03:25 PM »
Really, overall I liked most of your build, but I think the Dex synergy works surprisingly nicely, also, I'm a fan of the Spellstorm Mage.

I'm forseeing a schism between those that like Blood Mage and those that like Spellstorm Mage...

On the feats: yeah, there's just a lot of them, and they aren't all good...

Armor proficiency may be worth something, as may the healing surge boosters...

I just got feats that sounded too good.

brislove

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2008, 03:09:28 AM »
I can see that build. I had put a fair amount of thought into it. I like staff for the static bonus, but getting a +3 bonus to hit 1/encounter is pretty good, even if you don't get that till epic.

Blind-fight only works on adjacent enemies, so it probably isn't worth it for this build most of the time. Point-Blank shot is amazing though, if they are within 5, it ignores cover/concealment. which is pretty nice for your higher level spells.

I also want to get epic resurgence ASAP, you make an attack roll for each enemy you hit, thats a lot of chances to roll a 20. (usually 4-5) thats a 20-25% chance of getting a power back.

I like Eladrin, in fact It was my first build, was a eladrin/SS, but the level 20 daily from blood mage is retarded amazing, and I wanted another at-will :-p.

Treantmonklvl20

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2008, 07:22:43 PM »
I'm thinking Human/Eladrin are your best choices for Race - get that Int bonus!

Burning Blizzard is a crappy feat IMO - +1 damage isn't a big draw for a control wizard IMO.  It's one of those feats that you think should be good - since it enhances alot of the spells you will be taking - it's just the bonus it provides is really not that advantageous in terms of controlling the battefield.

I haven't decided which paragon path I like best - or even whether the wizard paragon paths are your best bet (since you can use multiclass feats to enter different paragon paths).

Rest assured I will have opinions on everything eventually.  Opinions are something I never have in short supply  :wink

If at first you don't succeed - maybe failure is your style.

Treantmonklvl20

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2008, 09:23:31 PM »
I'm forseeing a schism between those that like Blood Mage and those that like Spellstorm Mage...

I'm seeing a schism between all the other wizard-guru's and me when I say go with neither.   :teach

After reading everything through - I'm pretty much convinced - the way to go with a Wizard is Divine Oracle.  (Available through Initiate of Faith feat)

Why Divine Oracle?  So many reasons:

1) Initiative: In my opinion, the importance of initiative cannot be overstated for a Battlefield Controller.  I cannot express the difference in effectiveness of Battlefield controls before the enemy moves vs. after the enemy moves.  The Divine Oracle cannot be surprised and always rolls initiative twice - taking the better result.  This is so huge it sold me on this path before I read all this other great stuff.

2) Manouverability: In a game where full-attacks are gone, as well as double-move attacks - manouverability will become more important than ever.  Getting the extra move action to be spent any time over the encounter when you spend an action point may not be huge - but when you end up surrounded in melee - you may change your mind.

3) To Hit: With 4e - hitting will be your #1 priority.  In 3.5 we enjoyed spells that didn't grant saves or SR - now you need to roll to hit on any spell that has an enemy target.  The level 16 power gives 2 rolls on any vs. will attack.  There is a downside if both rolls miss (dazed for a round) - but still well worth it I expect - and Wizards get lots of nice vs. will attacks.

4) Buff: A wizard is going to get Battlefield Control and Debuff - but is weak on buff.  Prophecy of Doom and Good Omens are both very nice buffs that will turn a Controller into a Controller/Leader.  When I pull out my 4e to Treantmonk dictionary - Controller/Leader = God.

The only power of the Divine Oracle that doesn't rock is Hammer of Fate - but I would hardly consider it terrible - and it's the only Divine Oracle power that is based on a stat (Wis  :wink) so no MAD concerns at all.

Am I missing something???
If at first you don't succeed - maybe failure is your style.

Straw_Man

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2008, 09:27:24 PM »

Yes! Someone else thinks the Divine Oracle is awesome  :) I was starting to think I was going crazy.

I think humans a better bet that Eladrin for the short haul. a feats better thatn a Cha boost unless your hitting the paragon tier where is sets up for Spell Focus.
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Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

Dan2

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2008, 10:07:33 PM »

Yes! Someone else thinks the Divine Oracle is awesome  :) I was starting to think I was going crazy.

I think humans a better bet that Eladrin for the short haul. a feats better thatn a Cha boost unless your hitting the paragon tier where is sets up for Spell Focus.

Uh, where did Cha come in?  Eladrin raise Int and Dex...  Were you thinking of Tiefling?

Also,  :bigeye *gasp*  That's really good!  Almost too good!  Congrats on catching that TM!

I'll have to look into this now!

EDIT: I noticed one possible sticking point, and it has to do with the "weakest link" in Divine Oracle: Hammer of Fate.
Terrifying Insight stuns you if you miss an attack against a target's Will defense, and the interesting part of Hammer of Fate only triggers if you miss...

Does Terrifying Insight trigger?  Does it get negated by the time rewind?  Are you stunned for this turn and next?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 10:36:57 PM by Dan2 »

brislove

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2008, 02:39:03 AM »
Ya I had noticed this while I was at work tonight, going through the paragon paths...divine oracle is insanely good for a wizard, and you can grab other multi-class feats, just take the ones that aren't attack rolls.

Eladrin is probably a better race then human, since you can take orb as your second implement at 11 and prior to that it's not as large of a boon, hitting is more important when you have a shortage of encoutner/daily powers. (also fey step is strong, really strong.)

I don't like burning blizzard, but it was a feat to fill slots TBH, I didn't pay a ton of attention, I was more worried about power selection.

Blood mage still has a retarded good level 20 power, but initiate of the faith actually makes you able to perform all the rituals in the game competently ^_^.

Treantmonklvl20

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2008, 02:51:42 AM »
First draft of my new wizard's handbook is up for those interested.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1041166
If at first you don't succeed - maybe failure is your style.

Treantmonklvl20

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2008, 02:55:54 AM »
I noticed one possible sticking point, and it has to do with the "weakest link" in Divine Oracle: Hammer of Fate.
Terrifying Insight stuns you if you miss an attack against a target's Will defense, and the interesting part of Hammer of Fate only triggers if you miss...

Does Terrifying Insight trigger?  Does it get negated by the time rewind?  Are you stunned for this turn and next?

According to Hammer of Fate - if you miss it as treated as though you had never activated the ability.  That would suggest to me that any negative affects occured due to activating the ability go "poof".

However - Hammer of Fate is pure blast - so not something I'm overly keen on despite the "backup" feature (which is nifty).
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Squirrelloid

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2008, 06:47:32 AM »
I too am sold on Divine Oracle, having finally read all the way through the cleric abilities and paths.

Hammer of Fate is for after you sleep a target as a coup de grace power.  Seriously.  Really high single target damage for the guy who's going to make his enemy helpless - its useful to have one of those up your sleeve.
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Infinitive

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2008, 12:06:18 PM »
You've already got Arcane Gate in there as a selected power, but I feel obliged to note that as long as you have it up and sustain it as a minor action each round, you can have two enemies of your choice fall prone each round (No save, automatic hit) by placing the two gates under each of the two enemies' feet; they fall back and forth through the portals per the rules for a pit trap until they pass a saving throw, at which point they fall prone.

Interestingly, this may provoke Opportunity Attacks from adjacent allies, as the movement of your enemies is forced movement that is neither slide nor push movement (which does not provoke).  YMMV on that ruling, though.  Still, it's an awfully nice way to very seriously limit the mobility of the two nastiest guys you can see each round.
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Squirrelloid

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2008, 01:09:21 PM »
You've already got Arcane Gate in there as a selected power, but I feel obliged to note that as long as you have it up and sustain it as a minor action each round, you can have two enemies of your choice fall prone each round (No save, automatic hit) by placing the two gates under each of the two enemies' feet; they fall back and forth through the portals per the rules for a pit trap until they pass a saving throw, at which point they fall prone.

Interestingly, this may provoke Opportunity Attacks from adjacent allies, as the movement of your enemies is forced movement that is neither slide nor push movement (which does not provoke).  YMMV on that ruling, though.  Still, it's an awfully nice way to very seriously limit the mobility of the two nastiest guys you can see each round.

Arcane gate says a creature who 'enters' one of its squares 'can' move to the other.  It is not compelled to, and placing the gate 'under' it doesn't cause it to trigger the gate at all (it hasn't 'entered' the square).
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Straw_Man

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2008, 03:00:04 PM »


Arcane gate says a creature who 'enters' one of its squares 'can' move to the other.  It is not compelled to, and placing the gate 'under' it doesn't cause it to trigger the gate at all (it hasn't 'entered' the square).

Sliding powers set it up, falling is forced movement and the enemy should not be able to 'choose' during forced movement I would think.

Damn, I need to get my hands on the books so I can actually do research insted of speculate *frustrated*.
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

brislove

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Re: Batman/god Wizard orb controller
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2008, 04:15:52 PM »
I'm under the impression that using it to teleport is entirely optional, and that you could walk through the square normally if you wished to. I took it for it's utility as being able to cross a raging river, or a chasm would seemingly be of great benefit.

After further research I think eladrin is a better race, as is starting with wand and choosing orb at level 11 for extra implement. I am not completly sold yet, I have some building to do, but I'll get back here with an update when i have time (hopefully somewhat soon).