Author Topic: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook  (Read 216260 times)

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JaronK

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #60 on: November 05, 2009, 03:07:31 PM »
Unfortunately, those two feats only apply to your extraordinary ability poison... so it only works for races that have poison already or classes that give it.

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #61 on: November 26, 2009, 05:25:14 PM »
So I finally got that other poison book and man does it blow. The only nice thing about it is some regular equipment thats kinda nifty and the poisons themselves. The magic items stink and the prc's have almost nothing to do with poison. So stupid.

I really was looking for a weapon or enchantment of some kind that would allow a weapon to permanently hold poison so every hit could apply it and even hold multiple poisons of different types (10 applications of black lotus would be funny tho), maybe limiting it (in the style of 4e) to the number of +'s it has. So a +3 weapon could hold 3 poisons and apply those on every attack.

It might be a little overpowered at the start but not late game when almost everything has poison immunity. Which is why there also needs to be a feat or prc power or wonderous item that ignores poison immunity. That would make everything viable late game. It'd also have to scale up the DC for everything as well but it would be worth it.

Akalsaris

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #62 on: November 30, 2009, 06:38:10 PM »
Ah...too bad to hear about that book.  It was our last, best hope :P

I agree that a feat or PrC that allowed one to ignore poison immunity (like the Dread Witch ignores fear immunity) would make poisons much more viable.  Half-measures like "positoxins" and ravages really don't cut it when it comes to immune creatures.

Shigure

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #63 on: December 03, 2009, 01:13:35 AM »
First of all...wonderful thread. :clap I've gotten a lot of use out of it.

Now...I've found another delivery device for us. Ceramic Mines, from Dragon #332 page 61, are fairly simple traps that usually contain an alchemical fluid that does fire or acid or some such. The important thing is that in the text it mentions that they can also contain inhaled poisons.

They're basically thin skinned and relatively flat ceramic bowls that have been filled with whatever the designer wants then sealed shut. They're placed in passage ways to be stepped on(I can see them being incorporated into a tile floor very easily), placed on walls to be shot with a bolt or sling stone at the appropriate time, or incorporated into other traps. They even list some as stalactites that can be triggered to drop on an opponent, doing falling damage, and shattering to release whatever was contained within.

Not amazing but still rather fun.

There's no craft DC unfortunately but one can guess as they're usually just simple ceramics.   
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Akalsaris

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2009, 08:42:48 PM »
Nice find, Shigure, and thanks for the compliment! :)   

I think it'd be fun to use those pots along with Telekinesis, perhaps. 

On a different note, your name reminded me of Shigure Takimi from the awful Rurouni Kenshin movie, though I liked the character.  When I looked the character up just now, it turns out he was from Aizu, where I used to live!  So yeah - small world :)

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2009, 08:56:14 PM »
Hmm...get a metric s*** load of them, shrink them, then go on a bombing run over a city you don't like?  :smirk Of course the same can be done with glass vials so its not exactly an original thought.

Interesting connection...but I didn't take the name from a show...I took it from history. And because I like the meaning behind the name.
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Akalsaris

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2009, 09:58:19 PM »
What's the meaning?  Looking it up I've found a few different spellings, one that means autumn showers (time+rain - very simple, I like it), and another that has murasaki and a kanji I'm not familiar with.

Shigure

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2009, 12:46:22 AM »
It's typically translated to 'Autumn Mist', Autumn Showers', or 'Autumn Rain'. Its a beautiful and very appropriate thought considering I live in the Pacific Northwest which is quite wet in the fall.

I took it from the famous World War Two Japanese destroyer of the same name. The Shigure was known as "the unsinkable ship" since it survived so many close actions. It's most important captain got his memoirs published by some English firms and its an excellent read. Real moving and one of the few books that shows the naval war from the Japanese side. Look it up and give it a read if you're at all interested in naval history.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2010, 06:32:26 PM »
Amazing Poison stuff in Dragon Mag. Didn't see it in the handbook.[spoiler]


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snakeman830

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2010, 07:14:04 PM »
It might be worth mentioning thri-kreen under races.  Their poison is rather nice, have a initial damage of 1d6 Dex (low, but useable) and a secondary damage of paralysis (2d6 minutes, according to the SRD on poison).  They can only produce one dose a day (unless you take the feat in Complete Psionic for an additional two uses), but there's nothing stopping you from saving it up each day and using it on your weapon of choice.  Although the save DC is low (11+Con modifier), you do have the advantage of being unable to poison yourself with it and it's much easier to boost your own poison save DC than that of other creatures.
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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2010, 08:35:27 PM »
Amazing Poison stuff in Dragon Mag. Didn't see it in the handbook.[spoiler]


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The only one I would definitely consider is the Potent poison. That's just amazing. Maybe the mounting too, that's pretty cool that it builds up. What # Dragon Mag is that? I can see it's August 2004.

Akalsaris

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2010, 09:35:53 PM »
Concentrated seems like it would be good as well.  I think these options would be especially good for an artificer or somebody heading into Alchemist Savant, since both will be picking up Brew Potion anyhow.  Very nice find indeed, bearsarebrown :)  Once I get around to adding some more poisons I found in other obscure books (none of them particularly good though), I'll put this into the main part of the guide as well.

Oh, I also got a PM from zagan with another cool suggestion that adds a little more kick to every poisoning attempt:

It's a special material for weapon from the arms and equipement guide:

Gehennan Morghuth iron:
The weapon gain a -1 penality to attack and damage roll.
If it's piercing or slashing for each succesfull attack the weapon deliver a poison,
DC 12 1 Dex initiale 1d4 Dex secondary. It cost 4000gp.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2010, 06:34:44 AM »
These are all poisons which can be Minor Created, right?
Quote
[spoiler]Plant and mineral based poisons for Minor & Major Creation
Craft DC 15?: Stun Gas (Underdark).  DC 12, Stun effect.
Craft DC 15: Bloodroot (DMG).  DC 12, deals 0/1d4 Con +1d3 Wis
Craft DC 15: Sleeping Vine (A&E): DC 13, slowed/1d4 Dex
Craft DC 15: Good-Bye Kiss (C. Scoundrel) (Exhaustion/Exhaustion, Fatigued on a successful save)
Craft DC 15: Drow Poison (DMG) (Unconsciousness/Unconsciousness) *Noted as being distilled from fungi and roots in C. Scoundrel
Craft DC 17: Psychotropic Rot (DoTU): DC 15 ingested, deals 1d4 Wis/3d8 Hp.
Craft DC 20: Vapid Leaf Extract (A&E): DC 16, Dazed/2d6 Int.
Craft DC 20: Malyss Root paste (DMG).  DC 16, deals 1/2d4 Dex damage.
Craft DC 20: Sassone leaf residue (DMG): DC 16, deals 2d12 damage/1d6 Con.
Craft DC 21: Cave Terror (Underdark).  DC 20, Confusion effect.
Craft DC 25: Terinav Root (DMG).  DC 20, deals 1d6/2d6 Dex.
Craft DC 28: Darklight Brew (Injury, DoTU): DC 23, Deals an initial 2d6 Con and 1d6 Strength damage, and blindness as a secondary effect!  Can be crafted with Major Creation.
Craft DC 35: Black Lotus Extract (DMG).  DC 20, deals 3d6/3d6 Con.
Craft DC 45?: Greensickness (Dungeonscape, MMIII).  DC 33, deals 2d6 Str + 1d4 Con/2d6 Str + 1d4 Con.  *Confirmed that this is plant-based - it's from the Plague Brush in MMIII, an extraplanar house-sized tumbleweed of death.  Words fail me.  Craft DC given is an estimate.[/spoiler]

Also, this might be covered but I couldn't find it... how many doses is in a cubic foot?

Akalsaris

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2010, 09:52:41 PM »
Those are the ones that I could find that are craftable with minor or major creation, yes.  I'm sure there's more out there if you find any.

For dosage, you can try to wrap your head around the stuff in the Minor Creation and You thread.  I think 1 cubic foot of Sassone Leaf, for example, is going to be several thousand doses of it.  For most poisons it's somewhat abstract, however, since the text doesn't tell us whether you need just a drop of poison or to dunk the sword in a vat of it repeatedly.  But even a CL 1 casting should net several thousand doses by just about any interpretation.

Garryl

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2010, 05:58:31 AM »
Taxine (yew tree poison) and Kiss of the Grave are a couple of unusual poisons that may be useful in certain circumstances.

   Kiss of the Grave is a fairly weak initial poison (1d4 Con damage), but its secondary damage makes immortal creatures mortal. It also makes them unable to be raised or resurrected, and takes a Wish or Miracle to remove the effect. Contact poison, DC 20.

   Taxine is another weak initial poison. However, every dose the victim takes increases the save DC and damage of the secondary effect. It starts at DC 13, 1d2 Con/2d6 Con, and adds another +2 to the DC and 1d2 Con for the secondary effect for each dose taken, with no listed duration. It's ingested though, so that could be a problem. Ingested poison, DC 13.
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Archao

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #75 on: March 29, 2010, 06:20:19 AM »
I'm working on a character that dabbles in the use of poison (really just Craft (poison) and Master of Poisons) and my DM says that Good characters may not use poisons unless they are non-lethal. The Book of Exalted/Vile Deeds' comments seem, to me, to be more flavor than an actual ruling, but that's not my main problem. No, my problem is that I'm not allowed to use deadly poisons with a Neutral character unless I can show the DM something that says they can use them without shifting to a fully Evil alignment. Does anyone know where I can find such a thing?

Normally I'd ask in the "Ask a Question" thread, but posting here seemed more appropriate.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #76 on: March 29, 2010, 06:42:03 AM »
I'm working on a character that dabbles in the use of poison (really just Craft (poison) and Master of Poisons) and my DM says that Good characters may not use poisons unless they are non-lethal. The Book of Exalted/Vile Deeds' comments seem, to me, to be more flavor than an actual ruling, but that's not my main problem. No, my problem is that I'm not allowed to use deadly poisons with a Neutral character unless I can show the DM something that says they can use them without shifting to a fully Evil alignment. Does anyone know where I can find such a thing?

Normally I'd ask in the "Ask a Question" thread, but posting here seemed more appropriate.
It's dishonorable, but not evil.

The spell poison doesn't have the evil descriptor.
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Archao

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #77 on: March 29, 2010, 06:55:11 AM »
I'm working on a character that dabbles in the use of poison (really just Craft (poison) and Master of Poisons) and my DM says that Good characters may not use poisons unless they are non-lethal. The Book of Exalted/Vile Deeds' comments seem, to me, to be more flavor than an actual ruling, but that's not my main problem. No, my problem is that I'm not allowed to use deadly poisons with a Neutral character unless I can show the DM something that says they can use them without shifting to a fully Evil alignment. Does anyone know where I can find such a thing?

Normally I'd ask in the "Ask a Question" thread, but posting here seemed more appropriate.
It's dishonorable, but not evil.

The spell poison doesn't have the evil descriptor.
So unless a character class is specifically banned from using poisons (such as Paladin) they can use whatever they want?

bearsarebrown

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #78 on: March 29, 2010, 06:57:44 AM »
Correct.

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #79 on: March 29, 2010, 06:58:27 AM »
I'm working on a character that dabbles in the use of poison (really just Craft (poison) and Master of Poisons) and my DM says that Good characters may not use poisons unless they are non-lethal. The Book of Exalted/Vile Deeds' comments seem, to me, to be more flavor than an actual ruling, but that's not my main problem. No, my problem is that I'm not allowed to use deadly poisons with a Neutral character unless I can show the DM something that says they can use them without shifting to a fully Evil alignment. Does anyone know where I can find such a thing?

Normally I'd ask in the "Ask a Question" thread, but posting here seemed more appropriate.

The BoED poison ruling is incredibly stupid and inconsistent. So using poison is evil but stabbing people in the face, beating them to death with your bear hands (Druids), hitting painful vital organs, sealing their soul away for eternity, mind control, and burning people alive are not evil. They make some silly argument about damaging ability damage is inherently evil (even though most ability damaging spells are not evil) and there are poisons in the BoED that deal ability damage but they do it painlessly. So a solution is to get some sort of anesthetic and mix your poisons with it so they do not feel pain if your DM insists that poison is evil. Another argument you could use against your DM is that using poisons can cause an enemy to be killed in a single round, while a regular battle would have them repeated stabbed, burned, and battered over the course of what might be several minutes before they are just too injured to remain standing, so poison is quicker and more merciful.