Author Topic: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook  (Read 215976 times)

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Akalsaris

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #120 on: September 13, 2010, 12:24:26 AM »
I don't actually own the XPH, I use the SRD for my psionics needs.  So I'll update for the thri-kreen.  And will add a note on shapesand as well :)

Nunkuruji

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #121 on: October 11, 2010, 08:54:06 PM »
Having been DMing City of the Spider Queen, there is an interesting template that might be exploited to create poison.

Arachnoid template (Animal, Beast, Magical Beast)
(Usually used by Drow, of course)

Grants a creature a Str damage poison attack bite, based on size.

Mutate your favorite High Con, High HD critter, and happy harvesting.

[spoiler]The adventure itself uses it to create an Advanced Gray Render with a DC35 poison and +33 grapple on its bite. Hope you have Freedom of Movement, etc :)[/spoiler]

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #122 on: January 16, 2011, 02:50:35 AM »
This handbook has several good resources in it. I have gone through it carefully and have noticed some of the references are to the wrong books. Adding page numbers would REALLY help. An example is Black lotus extract (CAdv98 updated from A&EG) not (DMG)

Also don't forget DragMag301 p58 for +2 to DCs  ;)

I also sugggest that the greensickness be DC35. It seems that Craft DC = Save DC + 2, if volcanic gas can be trusted though I still don't know how you got that DC (Sa 24,25 lists none). Its even close to the Black lotus extract cost.

What is needed is a regular to greater poison conversion. Wyvern poison might work for that. If craft and fort DC scale equally then it is craft DC = Save DC + 8. This makes sense as it is animal-based, more con, and an injury poison. Gargantuan wyvern poison's save DC is 21 so its craft would be 29. The reason I chose greater wyvern is that it has the same CR as the greensickness. So it is about as effective (once activated) as greensickness in terms of lethality. They are also 1k away in price. I understand that craft DC and poison DC are measure of different things but this does point to a more conservative Craft estimate of 30 or 35 rather than 40 or 45. To be sure though, we could do regressions on various classes of poisons.

Lastly a section on how to meet those Craft DCs would be awesome. Come to think of it the SRD seems to suggest that only a DC20 is needed (for superior or complex items):
Quote
When casting the spell minor creation, you must succeed on an appropriate Craft check to make a complex item.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 02:54:44 AM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
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snakeman830

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #123 on: January 17, 2011, 07:39:54 AM »
I want to mention Scentbreaker from Tome and Blood.  It isn't a poison, but it behaves like one.  It's a splash weapon that lingers for 1 hour.  Anything caught in the splash or coming through the hit area must make a DC 15 Fort save or lose the scent quality (initial 1 minute, secondary 1 hour).  A direct hit boosts the save DC to 18.
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Akalsaris

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #124 on: January 17, 2011, 08:40:19 AM »
Hrm, page numbers would be a good idea, I'll get to work on those.  Any suggestions for other lists of poisons that would be useful?  There are lots that I haven't covered simply because nobody needs another DC 13 1d4 Str ingested poison. 

What is in Dragon 301, Pg. 58?

A section on meeting craft DCs is another good idea.  I'll see what I can put together.

Also, Scentbreaker sounds pretty cool.  I'd love to do an alchemical items guide at some point, there's a lot of nifty stuff out there.

Endarire

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #125 on: January 18, 2011, 12:58:47 AM »
Thri-Kreen were updated again in Shining South, a Faerun book.
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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #126 on: January 27, 2011, 05:37:01 AM »
First off an excellent guide. Secondly I didn't see the water ninja from Dragon Magazine 354 p 87. Instead of invisibility it creates a cloud of obscuring mist (and at higher levels solid fog) which it can lace with either contact or inhaled poisons and by using a couple of the ki power feats you can get a 20' radius cloud of poison that obscures vision prevents movement and lasts for several rounds poisoning each round for a single dose of poison (you are immune to inhaled poisons but not contact). (also works well with combat reflexes and a poisoned kusari-gama [or bladed scarf if you are using pathfinder])

Akalsaris

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #127 on: January 28, 2011, 07:54:56 AM »
Very interesting - could definitely make an interesting character if you can make the clouds as a swift action.  I'll try to get that issue, and if it is as good as it sounds I'll add it in.  Thanks for the contribution!

bearsarebrown

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #128 on: February 01, 2011, 07:51:08 AM »
Clouds are in fact a swift action.

Theomniadept

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #129 on: February 13, 2011, 07:46:18 AM »
Okay, I am not an expert on sources, but I have the Complete Scoundrel and the errata: according to this guide Poison Expert adds 2 to the DCs of poisons crafted but according to the book it works much like Poison Master in that you pick a type of poison and increase the DC of that specific poison by 1. I don't see any errata revisions so you'll have to point out where any sources saying otherwise exist, but if they don't you may want to change that little bit in the guide.

Akalsaris

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #130 on: February 16, 2011, 06:34:03 AM »
Thanks for the catch Theomniadept!  I'm not really sure how I made that mistake.  I've fixed it with the proper entry. 

In other news, I've asked several Iron Chef participants if I can include their builds in the guide, and hope to gain their assent soon!  Hopefully some new assassins, animal lords, and ardent dilettentes will soon grace this guide. 

I'll also add a section on the variant ninja since I just got Dragon 354 :D

Theomniadept

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #131 on: February 18, 2011, 08:03:04 PM »
No trouble at all Alkasaris, though I was hoping there was some source that made that feat a bit more viable. Ah well, the tragedy of the poison brewer never ceases.

Thanks for the guide though, my Hexblade with his Imp familiar is finding it is awful convenient to have a tiny glaive with Imp poison, a dark companion, hexblade curse, and a Virulent Scythe with the triple weapon capsule on it. That imp's poison's hit a few times and we're not too far into the game yet. Liking the feat Master of Poisons but it should be noted that technically drawing the vial of poison is a move action so it's not exactly broken (not that anyone has said that, just pointing out someone with poison use + quick draw has the same action economy as someone without quick draw taking Master of Poisons).

That said, the Complete Scoundrel poison feats state an odd line:

"This feat has no effect on poisons used by other creatures, even if you craft those poisons. It also has no effect on natural poisons (those exuded from a creature’s body)."

So, this is technically saying the feats don't add to ANYTHING that has a specific name like (size) Monstrous (creature) poison, or good stuff like Dragon Bile. And, while I'm at it, plants are creatures so would this disallow the feat for something that is given by a plant (not a plant monster, something natural)?

I only bring this up because if the ruling says this feat doesn't apply to stuff like that it may be worth looking over to see whether it is a turkey or not. Also, the requirements for these feats specifically states 'poison use', and while any sensible DM would allow Master of Poisons to count towards it, it does probably need to be stated.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 09:33:39 PM by Theomniadept »

X-Codes

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #132 on: February 26, 2011, 07:44:49 AM »
Black Dragon Lineage from Dragon Magic.  Contact poison, deals HP damage and fatigues as both initial and secondary damage (save negates fatigue and halves damage).  Created by expending an arcane spell slot, which also determines the damage and DC.

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #133 on: February 26, 2011, 08:12:25 AM »

That said, the Complete Scoundrel poison feats state an odd line:

"This feat has no effect on poisons used by other creatures, even if you craft those poisons. It also has no effect on natural poisons (those exuded from a creature’s body)."

So, this is technically saying the feats don't add to ANYTHING that has a specific name like (size) Monstrous (creature) poison, or good stuff like Dragon Bile. And, while I'm at it, plants are creatures so would this disallow the feat for something that is given by a plant (not a plant monster, something natural)?
I believe it's no longer considered natural if you produce it with a craft check - there's text somewhere along the lines of "crafting poisons like dragon bile includes far more steps than just putting some dragon bile in a bottle".

Also, normal non monster plants aren't creatures, since they don't have wis or cha scores.
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Akalsaris

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #134 on: March 07, 2011, 08:22:11 AM »
Small update - added Scentbreaker, the Water ninjas, and adjusted the craft DC for Greensickness. 

I'll do something on craft DCs next, so please post anything you can think of.  A Poison Kit masterwork item for +2 seems appropriate.

JaronK

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #135 on: March 07, 2011, 11:32:46 PM »
I was looking through that Complete McGyver handbook, and Weapon Capsules were mentioned.  The fun thing is that such a capsule lets you put up to three doses of poison on your weapon as a swift action.  Are there any specific rules for what happens if it's the same poison?  Does the DC go up, or do enemies just have to make three saves?  If it's the latter and you've already got a source of free poison (like Minor Creation) that's all kinds of useful... just use the capsule to load three doses on your weapon, then at the start of the fight you hit your enemy once (three saves), reload as a swift action, then force three more saves.

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #136 on: March 08, 2011, 01:54:38 AM »
Dye arrows (from Pathfinder) allow you to fill the bulbs on the ends and splatter liquids (such as dye) on a ranged touch attack that deals no damage, but at the range of whatever bow you've got.

So fill up some dye arrows with contact poison.
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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #137 on: April 29, 2011, 05:13:24 PM »
thanx I am glad i found this.. I am making a list for D n D of posions... and will post on en world via a link to 4shared .com that way no problem and you can download the compiled list complete without all the searching..

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #138 on: April 30, 2011, 03:42:27 AM »
And, while I'm at it, plants are creatures so would this disallow the feat for something that is given by a plant (not a plant monster, something natural)?
In game terms, a plant is only a creature if it has a Wisdom score.  Normal grass and trees, for example, would be treated as objects, even though they're alive.

Akalsaris

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Re: Arsenic & Old Lace - the Poison Handbook
« Reply #139 on: April 30, 2011, 08:47:10 PM »
thanx I am glad i found this.. I am making a list for D n D of posions... and will post on en world via a link to 4shared .com that way no problem and you can download the compiled list complete without all the searching..

Thanks, and good luck with the list!

When making the list, keep in mind that many 3.0 poisons from the BoVD were updated in Dungeonscape, so their ridiculous DCs are incorrect.