Author Topic: Pokemon SAME  (Read 4631 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

the_taken

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Fear of Monkeys!
    • davidpetrie.info
    • Email
Pokemon SAME
« on: May 31, 2008, 05:56:01 AM »
Face it. You like the idea of pulling an dragonite out of you pants and having it beat the living daylights out of some fool's ratata. It's quite the power trip, commanding a magical super animal to enter arenas and pummel away at other magical super animals, and totally understandable.

While the video games are worth the time put into them, it's kinda clumsy to play Pokemon Stadium to facilitate a Role Playing experience. So, presented here is a basic skeleton of a game that you can use to play PkMn away from the flashy TV and scripted stadium battles; a dice based emulation of the background mathematics that run the video games.

[spoiler]Pokemon SAME

Everyone is familiar with RPing. It's a very instinctual concept. Pretend to be someone or something else and react to an imaginary environment. You know, dolls and action figures type of stuff
But some elements of pre-K are best left then and there. This is the high-school theater, and rules are sometimes important. Like when dealing with Pokemon. Sure, you're favorite is Mudkip, but can he really beat a higher level Charizard? No. But for some reason, some people need rules to remind them of facts like this.

Pokemon are incredibly diverse, a total of 498 different types, including multi-forms. Playing a dice game reflecting the power of Pokemon accurately requires a little more than just rolling dice. This system of rules is was created to emulate both the powerful nature of Pokemon, and the randomness inherent within battles.
This system isn't all encompassing, and certain elements are specifically left without rules. It's just here to help players figure out battles faster without "I win" syndrome or "god_mode" effects.

To play, you'll need one 20-sided die and a classic 6 sided die, hereafter referred to as a d20 and a d6 respectively.
If you're not willing or able to purchase dice from gaming and hobby stores, digital alternatives can be found on the internet. Search for "die roller."

The SAME System

Built from the ground up with the concept that no matter what choices you make, you are equally powerful to any other entity of the same level. The concept is very important to gaming, to strategy and roleplaying alike.

Pokemon SAME's balance toppled when species modifiers to stats was introduced. The lesson is that not all Pokemon are created equal, and this is actually a wanted feature of the game. If you're playing as an Arbok, Mr.Charizard will put milk and you in cheerios and then eat you. Whole.
Good news is that the game balance found in the video games is emulated by this dice system.

Accuracy Roll: 1d20 - move's penalty + buffs + special abilities
Evasion Score: 8 + buffs
Base Damage: This number is based entirely on the move being use.
Total Damage: Move's Base Damage + Physical/Special Attack + Accuracy Roll Bonus
Soak Roll: 1d20 + Physical/Special Defence
Lost HP: (Total Damage - Soak Roll) divide by 2


Pokemon's Stats
"...the power that's inside!"

Although these numbers primarily important for battles, they are also used for determining obedience from Pokemon to trainers.
There are 6 stats, that start at 0, except for HP which starts at 10, and an evolution bonus.

Health Points (HP), Physical Attack (Atk), Physical Defence (Def), Speed (Spd), Special Attack (SAt), and Special Defence (SDf). (I highly doubt you can't figure out what these numbers mean on your own.)

Now, it is important that when recording a pokemon's stats, you have to record the stats with the bonus points you get from leveling up separately from and before the total stats, which you get by applying the pokemon's species modifiers.

So, a pokemon's stat sheet may look like this:

Quote from: Bulbasaur

Code: [Select]
Plant / Poison
Evolution 0
Lvl 3
     Base + Spec = Total
(HP)   3  +  -4  =   9
(Atk)  3  +  -4  =  -1
(Def)  0  +  -4  =  -4
(Spd)  0  +  -4  =  -4
(SAt)  3  +  -2  =  +1
(SDf)  0  +  -2  =  -2

This separation and extra book keeping is for determining a PkMn's obediance. Which leads to the next section...

Trainers and Pokemon Obedience
"Just say the line, or you'll get the gas."

Why do Pokemon obey their trainers?
Machop is way stronger than any human body builder, yet it will punch other Machops on command. A little kid's order no less. Why would it do that?

There are a few reasons, which add up to humans being able to control most pokemon.

One, is that pokeballs form an empathic link between the owner and the contained pokemon. This isn't actually enough on it's own. But generally a pokemon is more inclined to obey a trainer that has a similar personality. Which is why bikers have weezings and muks while Officer Jenny is followed by a myriad of noble pokemon like Arcanine.

Another is the trainers skills and abilities. A powerful Gyarados is not likely to obey a human unless that human is very strong willed and has enough understanding of the pokemon's abilties.

Rules: Humans (Trainers) have stats, similar to a pokemons, minus the base Speed stat, and they can't get an evolution bonus. They also have up to two types, like pokemon. Instead of a base Speed stat Humans have an Accuracy (Acc) stat and an Evasion (Eva) stat. These are used to figure out his ability to throw pokeballs and help his pokemon avoid thief balls respectively, and are added together to determine a human's Spd, and a

A Pokemon will obey the commands of a trainer if at least one of the Pokemon's two highest base stats is no more than four points higher than the trainer's corresponding stat.
Pokemon add their evolution bonus to their own stats for obedience purposes.
When a trainers shares a type with a pokemon, their stats count as one higher for the purpose of controlling their Pokemon. 2 shared types means a +2 bonus as well.
However, if a Pokemon is of a type which a trainer's type is weak against, the trainer get's a -1 penalty to determine obedience.

Pokeballs
"I've got a Dragonite... In my pants."

It's not really important how they actually work. You throw them, and sometimes the pokemon you hit disappears into it. But you have to hit the pokemon, and sometimes the pokemon will break the ball.

Pokeball Rules:
Accuracy Roll: 1d20 + trainer's Acc
Has to beat 8 + the pokemon's HP, success indicating that the pokemon has been absorbed into the ball.
The pokemon then makes 3 d20 rolls to try to break out. It must beat the ball's power with one of the rolls to break free of the pokeball.
The first roll is d20 + HP + Atk or SAt
The second roll is d20 + HP + Spd
The third roll is d20 + HP + Def or Sdf

A regular pokeball has a power of 15. Different balls have different power levels and maybe special abilities.
Normally, no pokeball can be used to capture another trainer's pokemon. The Theif Ball, on the other hand, can. However, the pokemon adds its trainer's Eva stat to it's evasion score to avoid the pokeball.

Leveling Up

An integral part of all RPGs is becoming more powerful. Generally, in video games you get points for defeating enemies. This works well for that medium, but for pen and paper RPGs it's a potential for abuse and disaster on a monumental scale.
For this game, level ups occur at the end of quests and short adventures. Pokemon evolve into more powerful forms after a few quests, and learn new attacks whenever the Game Master and controlling player agree. Be aware that some pokemon evolve quickly, like most bug pokemon, while others will probably not reach their highest form 'till near the end of a series of quests, such as Dragonite.

A few rules to keep things from getting out of hand.
There are a total of 20 levels.
At 14 certain levels, a floating point is handed out to pokemon and trainers which are allocated to any stat. However, no stat may have more than 6 floating points added to it.
Additionally, at 6 certain levels, all of a pokemon's, or trainer's stats increase by one.

Code: [Select]
Lvl 1: +1 one stat
Lvl 2: +1 one stat
Lvl 3: +1 one stat
Lvl 4: +1 to all stats
Lvl 5: +1 one stat
Lvl 6: +1 one stat
Lvl 7: +1 one stat
Lvl 8: +1 to all stats
Lvl 9: +1 one stat
Lvl10: +1 one stat
Lvl11: +1 to all stats
Lvl12: +1 one stat
Lvl13: +1 one stat
Lvl14: +1 to all stats
Lvl15: +1 one stat
Lvl16: +1 one stat
Lvl17: +1 to all stats
Lvl18: +1 one stat
Lvl19: +1 one stat
Lvl20: +1 to all stats

Using the Numbers: Battles
"Magikarp! Use Splash Attack!" "Now Magikarp! Counter with Splash Attack!"

This system works in the same way as the video game, with simple changes to incorporate dice instead of calculus.

Just like the video game, trainers go first. Most often they give their pokemon a command. Unlike the video game, trainers have a varying speed stat, so there's isn't always cases of rolling off to see who goes first.

Next, the pokemon perform their designated actions. Obviously, the pokemon with a higher speed would go first.

Most often, a pokemon is going to perform an attack move. First the move has to hit. An hit is determined by comparing an accuracy roll against a static evasion score.

Accuracy Roll: 1d20 - move's penalty + buffs + special abilities
Vs.
Evasion Score: 8 + buffs

Many moves reduce the accuracy roll. Buffs also mean de-buffs like Sand-attack. Some pokemon have special abilities that improve accuracy.

If the Accuracy Roll is greater than the evasion score, the attack hits. To emulate critical hits, for every two extra points the Accuracy Roll beats the evasion score, the attack deals an extra point of damage.

But there's no guarantee that the attack will deal significant damage. The subject of the attack gets to roll to soak up and reduce the damage.

Soak Roll: 1d20 + Physical/Special Defence
Vs.
Total Damage: Move's Base Damage + Physical/Special Attack + Accuracy Roll Bonus

If the Soak Roll is higher than the damage, the defender takes no damage. But if the damage is still higher than the Soak Roll, the subject of the attack looses 1 HP. Again, to emulate critical hits, for every 2 extra points the damage is higher than the Soak Roll, the subject looses another point of HP.

When a pokemon has 0 HP, it's out of the battle.

There's 498 different pokemon and something like 478 attacks. That's allot of typing, especially for one person, so I releasing the chart I used to figure translate stats from PkMn to SAME.

To figure out a pokemon's or move's SAME stat modifier, look up it's base stat (minus EVs and IVs for PkMn). Try Bublapedia. If the base stat is 80 to 89, it's SAME stat modifier is 0. For for every ten points higher, add 1 to the SAME stat. The reverse is also true. Base 70 to 79 become -1, 60 to -2, etc. down to less than Base 10 becoming a -8 modifier in SAME

#001 Bulbasaur
Base stats
HP: 45
Attack: 49
Defense: 49
SpAtk:    65
SpDef:    65
Speed:    45

SAME stats
HP:   - 4
Atk:   - 4
Def:   - 4
Spd:   - 4
SAt:   - 2
SDf:   - 2

Exception 1: Chansey has a base 250hp stat, a +17 to HP, and Blissey has base 255, +17 HP again. On the GBA, Blissey has just a few more Hp, so we'll give her another +1, total +18 to HP.

Exception 2: Barrage moves, like Fury Swipes or Egg Bomb don't translate the to SAME... the same. If you use this formula, barrage moves will deal around 5 times the expected damage of a single attack move. For barrage moves, translate the base damage of a single attack to SAME, then add 2 to it's power. When you use the move, roll two attack rolls and pick the highest result, then the defender rolls two defence rolls and takes the worst result.
Similarly, for double attack moves like Double Kick and Bonemerang, simply make two attack rolls and pick the highest result.

[spoiler]
Code: [Select]
Base Stat
to SAME Stat
255 +18
250 +17
240 +16
230 +15
220 +14
210 +13
200 +12
190 +11
180 +10
170 +9
160 +8
150 +7
140 +6
130 +5
120 +4
110 +3
100 +2
90 +1
80 +0
70 -1
60 -2
50 -3
40 -4
30 -5
20 -6
10 -7
<10 -8
[/spoiler]

Buffs: For most stats, these simply add or subtract 2 or 4, depending on the severity, to a maximum shift of 12 from normal. Tail Whip is -2 defence, while Screech is -4 defence.
For accuracy and evasion buffs, the first level of variance is 3, the second level is 2, and the last level is 1, for a maximum shift of 6 from normal. This is to make sure moves like Double Team and Sand-attack are still viable, but not maddeningly over powered when stacked.

Status Conditions
  • Burn reduces the pokemon's Attk by 4, and every turn it performs a strenuous action (like using a move) it looses 2 HP.
  • Freeze stops a pokemon from moving for 2d3 turns.
  • Paralysis reduces the pokemon's speed by 4, and it has a 50% chance to not do anything for a turn. Roll a d6: Even the PkMn does nothing, Odd the PkMn acts normally.
  • Poison takes 2hp away every round. Badly poisoned takes away 1hp for every round the pokemon has been poisoned.
  • Confusion causes the pokemon to do random stuff. Roll a d6: 1-2 it does any move it knows to anything it can do it too (including itself), 3-4 it loses 3hp by hurting itself, 5-6 it acts normal.

Sleep can work the same way as Freeze, but realistically the result of being KO'ed from chemicals or magic is the same as being pummeled into fainting: Unconsciousness. As an optional rule, Sleep inducing moves officially take a PkMn out of a fight if they succeed, like Fissure and Guillotine and must follow the same pattern: 30% accuracy, which becomes -5 to the attack roll in SAME.[/spoiler]

the_taken

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Fear of Monkeys!
    • davidpetrie.info
    • Email
Re: Pokemon SAME
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2008, 06:04:38 AM »
Quote of FrankTrollman

There have been lots of different reasons given why Pokemon follow their human masters. It really depends upon what it is that you're doing with them.
  • The "Super Stylers" emit powerful music that dominates Pokemon, allowing you to force them to do anything even until the Pokemon dies.

  • The Stylers of the Rangers create a temporary empathic bond between the Pokemon and the Ranger. This allows them to essentially "borrow" Pokemon in the wild to assist with tasks, but it also allows them to free dominated Pokemon.

  • Dark Balls turn Pokemon into Shadow Pokemon, which makes them very sad but also unable to resist the commands of someone with the proper Shadow Interface. Pokemon who are rescued with snag balls (or potentially "repeatedly stabbing their dark master in the face") are pathetically greatful and will follow their rescuers pretty much anywhere.

  • Basic Pokeballs specifically work better for Pokemon who see thigns like you do. Again, I think they work on the Empathic level. Villainous organizations have a difficult time getting Chancy to work for them. The conceit in the Pokemon games is that your character has justice in his heart and a bug up his ass so every Pokemon is willing to work for you at least once you've shown yourself by besting some of the gym challenges. But supposedly other people in the world can't do that.


-Frank

Quote of GeoSetzer

Pokenomics
"All boys leave home someday. It said so on TV."

Let's start with the simplest possible breakdown of why ten year old children are allowed, nay, ENCOURAGED to go out into the world, unsupervised, and engage in what effectively amounts to legalized cockfighting.

The reason is this very unpleasant one: Its to avoid child labour camps. Yes, this seems a little bit Farfetch'd [heh heh. I'm Punny], but in a world where ten year olds are sent out to commit acts of egregious violence and highway robbery, it becomes quite a bit more reasonable.

What highway robbery is this, you ask? Didn't you ever notice that anytime you won a trainer battle you got some money? This leads me to a simple conclusion: Those are the stakes of a Pokemon battle, the contents of your wallet. Which means that the economics of the Pokemon League are designed as a pyramid scheme, with the Master of the Elite Four being the richest person in the world, by virtue of having robbed everyone else.

The next problem to be addressed is the Pokemon Professors, who are known for giving out free Pokemon to underprivileged children. Why? Simple. They're Communists. As children they failed as trainers, spiralled into the aforementioned child labour camps, and are now socialist revolutionaries trying to undermine the system. What they don't seem to realize is that they are only perpetuating the cycle by allowing these underprivileged children to be sucked into the mafia overworld that is the Pokemon League.

And why can't Trainers be peaceful about they're business? Well, there's another easy answer. The world of Pokemon is, after all, based on Japanese customs and values. One of the most notable of historic Japanese customs is the Bushido Code, which would seem to have undergone an insane renaissance in the world of Pokemon, simply because you never even have the option of TRYING to decline a challenge.

At this point, some of the more astute among my audience may be wondering why schools don't enter the equation. There is a simple answer for this, as well. The school systems in the world of Pokemon would appear to be private schools, meaning that any child wishing to attend school must be able to afford the tuition. Therefore, in order to free themselves from a future of child labour, children must doom themselves to a future of child labour, allowing only the bourgeois who always have been, and always will be, rich to send their children to school. (As evidenced by James' backstory.)
 
The next issue to be addressed is food supply. Because all of those child labour camps would be sending kids out to be farmers. Why? Consider, for a moment, the kind of technology that is readily available in the Pokemon world. We'll start with Pokeballs and Bill's Pokemon Storage System. These two pieces of technology both give solid evidence that matter-energy conversion technology is readily available in the world of Pokemon. For that high level of technology to be readily available, suggests a MASSIVE high-tech industry, which is capable of ignoring several of the laws of physics. And yet, how often do you see farmers in your journeys throughout the Pokemon world? This makes one sad fact true: A widescreen plasma TV would cost less than a bowl of rice, because of the inarguable principles of supply and demand. There would be storehouses filled with hundreds of thousands of every electronic luxury you could imagine, and it would all be up for grabs because no-one would care.

Well. Hopefully you've all enjoyed learning more about the culture of Pokemon, and that's all I care to address in this episode. Tune in for our next episode for more learning, assuming I haven't been lynched by then.

- GeoSetzer

yellerSumner

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
Re: Pokemon SAME
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2008, 06:30:36 AM »
I sort of have no life, so I've been able to convert the base stats for the original 151.  I can't promise they're all correct since I did some of it pretty late at night when lines and columns started playing tricks on me.

I'll save further commentary for later and keep this post for stats and such.

#001-025 Bulbasaur - Pikachu
[spoiler]             HP  ATT  DEF  SPD  SAT  SDF
Bulbasaur    -4   -4   -4   -4   -2   -2
Ivysaur      -2   -2   -2   -2    0    0
Venusaur      0    0    0    0   +2   +2
Charmander   -5   -3   -4   -2   -2   -3
Charmeleon   -3   -2   -3    0    0   -2
Charizard    -1    0   -1   +2   +2    0
Squirtle     -4   -4   -2   -4   -3   -2
Wartortle    -3   -2    0   -3   -2    0
Blastoise    -1    0   +2   -1    0   +2
Caterpie     -4   -5   -5   -4   -6   -6
Metapod      -3   -6   -3   -5   -6   -6
Butterfree   -2   -4   -3   -1    0    0
Weedle       -4   -5   -5   -3   -6   -6
Kakuna       -4   -6   -3   -5   -6   -6
Beedrill     -2    0   -4   -1   -4    0
Pidgey       -4   -4   -4   -3   -5   -5
Pidgeotto    -2   -2   -3   -1   -3   -3
Pidgeot       0    0   -1   +1   -1   -1
Rattata      -5   -3   -5   -1   -6   -5
Raticate     -3    0   -2   +1   -3   -1
Spearow      -4   -2   -5   -1   -5   -5
Fearow       -2   +1   -2   +2   -2   -2
Ekans        -5   -2   -4   -3   -4   -3
Arbok        -2    0   -2    0   -2   -1
Pikachu      -5   -3   -5   +1   -3   -4
             HP  ATT  DEF  SPD  SAT  SDF
[/spoiler]
#026-050 Raichu - Diglett
[spoiler]             HP  ATT  DEF  SPD  SAT  SDF
Raichu       -2    0   -2    0   -2   -1
Sandshew     -3   -1    0   -4   -6   -5
Sandslash    -1   +2   +3   -2   -4   -3
Nidoran(F)   -3   -4   -3   -4   -4   -4
Nidorina     -1   -2   -2   -3   -3   -3
Nidoqueen    +1    0    0   -1   -1    0
Nidoran(M)   -4   -3   -4   -3   -4   -4
Nidorino     -2   -1   -3   -2   -3   -3
Nidoking      0   +1   -1    0    0   -1
Clefairy     -1   -4   -4   -5   -2   -2
Clefable     +1   -1   -1   -2    0   +1
Vulpix       -5   -4   -4   -2   -3   -2
Ninetales    -1   -1   -1   +2    0   +2
Jigglypuff   +3   -4   -6   -6   -4   -6
Wigglytuff   +6   -1   -4   -4   -1   -3
Zubat        -4   -4   -5   -3   -5   -4
Golbat       -1    0   -1   +1   -2   -1
Oddish       -4   -3   -3   -5   -1   -2
Gloom        -2   -2   -1   -4    0   -1
Vileplume    -1    0    0   -3   +2   +1
Paras        -5   -1   -3   -6   -4   -3
Parasect     -2   +4    0   -5   -2    0
Venonat      -2   -3   -3   -4   -4   -3
Venomoth     -1   -2   -2   +1   +1   -1
Diglett      -7   -3   -6   +1   -5   -4
             HP  ATT  DEF  SPD  SAT  SDF
[/spoiler]
#051-075 Dugtrio - Graveler
[spoiler]             HP  ATT  DEF  SPD  SAT  SDF
Dugtrio      -5    0   -3   +4   -3   -1
Meowth       -4   -4   -5   +1   -4   -4
Persian      -2   -1   -2   +3   -2   -2
Psyduck      -3   -3   -4   -3   -2   -3
Golduck       0    0   -1    0   +1    0
Mankey       -4    0   -5   -1   -5   -4
Primeape     -2   +2   -2   +1   -2   -1
Growlithe    -3   -1   -4   -2   -1   -3
Arcanine     +1   +3    0   +1   +2    0
Poliwag      -4   -3   -4   +1   -4   -4
Poliwhirl    -2   -2   -2   +1   -3   -3
Poliwrath    +1    0   +1   -1   -1   +1
Abra         -6   -6   -7   +1   +2   -3
Kadabra      -4   -5   -5   +2   +4   -1
Alakazam     -3   -3   -4   +4   +5    0
Machop       -1    0   -3   -5   -5   -5
Machoke       0   +2   -1   -4   -3   -2
Machamp      +1   +5    0   -3   -2    0
Bellsprout   -3   -1   -5   -4   -4   -5
Weepinbell   -2   +1   -3   -3    0   -4
Victreebel    0   +2   -2   -1   +2   -2
Tentacool    -4   -4   -5   -1   -3   +2
Tentacruel    0   -1   -2   +2    0   +4
Geodude      -4    0   +2   -6   -5   -5
Graveler     -3   +1   +3   -5   -4   -4
             HP  ATT  DEF  SPD  SAT  SDF
[/spoiler]
#076-100 Golem - Voltorb
[spoiler]             HP  ATT  DEF  SPD  SAT  SDF
Golem         0   +3   +5   -4   -3   -2
Ponyta       -3    0   -3   +1   -2   -2
Rapidash     -2   +2   -1   +2    0    0
Slowpoke     +1   -2   -2   -7   -4   -4
Slowbro      +1   -1   +3   -5   +2    0
Magnemite    -6   -5   -1   -4   +1   -3
Magneton     -3   -2   +0   -1   +4   -1
Farfetch'd   -3   -2   -3   -2   -3   -2
Doduo        -5    0   -4   -1   -5   -5
Dodrio       -2   +3   -1   +2   -2   -2
Seel         -2   -4   -3   -4   -4   -1
Dewgong      +1   -1    0   -1   -1   +1
Grimer        0    0   -3   -6   -4   -3
Muk          +2   +2   -1   -3   -2   +2
Shellder     -5   -2   +2   -4   -4   -6
Cloyster     -3   +1  +10   -1    0   -4
Gastly       -5   -5   -5    0   +2   -5
Haunter      -4   -3   -4   +1   +3   -3
Gengar       -2   -2   -2   +3   +5   -1
Onix         -5   -4   +8   -1   -5   -4
Drowzee      -2   -4   -4   -4   -4   +1
Hypno         0   -1   -1   -2   -1   +3
Krabby       -5   +2   +1   -3   -6   -6
Kingler      -3   +5   +3   -1   -3   -3
Voltorb      -4   -5   -3   +2   -3   -3
             HP  ATT  DEF  SPD  SAT  SDF
[/spoiler]
#101-125 Electrode - Electrabuzz
[spoiler]             HP  ATT  DEF  SPD  SAT  SDF
Electrode    -2   -3   -1   +6    0    0
Exeggcute    -2   -4    0   -4   -2   -4
Exeggutor    +1   +1    0   -3   +4   -2
Cubone       -3   -3   +1   -5   -4   -3
Marowak      -2    0   +3   -4   -3    0
Hitmonlee    -3   +4   -3    0   -5   +3
Hitmonchan   -3   +2   -1   -1   -5   +3
Lickitung    +1   -3   -1   -5   -2   -1
Koffing      -4   -2   +1   -5   -2   -4
Weezing      -2   +1   +4   -2    0   -1
Rhyhorn       0    0   +1   -6   -5   -5
Rhydon       +2   +5   +4   -4   -4   -4
Chansey     +17   -8   -8   -3   -5   +2
Tangela      -2   -3   +3   -2   -2   -4
Kangaskhan   +2   +1    0   +1   -4    0
Horsea       -5   -4   -1   -2   -1   -6
Seadra       -3   -2   +1    0   +1   -4
Goldeen      -4   -2   -2   -2   -5   -3
Seaking       0   +1   -2   -2   -2    0
Staryu       -5   -4   -3    0   -1   -3
Starmie      -2   -1    0   +3   +2    0
Mr. Mime     -4   -4   -2   +1   +2   +4
Scyther      -1   +3    0   +2   -3    0
Jynx         -2   -3   -5   +1   +3   +1
Electabuzz   -2    0   -3   +2   +1    0
             HP  ATT  DEF  SPD  SAT  SDF
[/spoiler]
#126-150 Magmar - Mewtwo
[spoiler]             HP  ATT  DEF  SPD  SAT  SDF
Magmar       -2   +1   -3   +1   +2    0
Pinsir       -2   +4   +2    0   -3   -1
Tauros       -1   +2   +1   +3   -4   -1
Magikarp     -6   -7   -3    0   -7   -6
Gyarados     +1   +4   -1    0   -2   +2
Lapras       +5    0    0   -2    0   +1
Ditto        -4   -4   -4   -4   -4   -4
Eevee        -3   -3   -3   -3   -4   -2
Vaporeon     +5   -2   -2   -2   +3   +1
Jolteon      -2   -2   -2   +5   +3   +1
Flareon      -2   +5   -2   -2   +1   +3
Porygon      -2   -2   -1   -4    0   -1
Omanyte      -5   -4   +2   -5   +1   -3
Omastar      -1   -2   +4   -3   +3   -1
Kabuto       -5    0   +1   -3   -3   -4
Kabutops     -2   +3   +2    0   -2   -1
Areodactyl    0   +2   -2   +5   -2   -1
Snorlax      +8   +3   -2   -5   -2   +3
Articuno     +1    0   +2    0   +1   +4
Zapdos       +1   +1    0   +2   +4   +1
Moltres      +1   +2   +1   +1   +4    0
Dratini      -4   -2   -4   -3   -3   -3
Dragonair    -2    0   -2   -1   -1   -1
Dragonite    +1   +5   +1    0   +2   +2
Mewtwo       +2   +3   +1   +5   +7   +1
             HP  ATT  DEF  SPD  SAT  SDF
[/spoiler]
#151 Mew
[spoiler]             HP  ATT  DEF  SPD  SAT  SDF
Mew          +2   +2   +2   +2   +2   +2
[/spoiler]

the_taken

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Fear of Monkeys!
    • davidpetrie.info
    • Email
Re: Pokemon SAME
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2008, 03:31:20 PM »
I sort of have no life, so I've been able to convert the base stats for the original 151.  I can't promise they're all correct since I did some of it pretty late at night when lines and columns started playing tricks on me.

Rather industrious of you.

yellerSumner

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
Re: Pokemon SAME
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2008, 09:17:26 PM »
I'm a bit distracted by 4e at the moment, but I do intend to also do Mudkip and Johto and Sinnoh Pokemon.  The rest of the Hoenn Pokemon will likely be done for completeness.

In addition to the Pokemon and Attacks, there are 123 Abilities if I'm recalling the number correctly.  While you could include those as part of the Pokemon, it seems to me you can feel like you've accomplished more by considering them separately.  Happily, some of them seem to lack in battle effects and won't be as troublesome to convert.

Sleep can work the same way as Freeze, but realistically the result of being KO'ed from chemicals or magic is the same as being pummeled into fainting: Unconsciousness. As an optional rule, Sleep inducing moves officially take a PkMn out of a fight if they succeed, like Fissure and Guillotine and must follow the same pattern: 30% accuracy, which becomes -5 to the attack roll in SAME.

I believe this is a poor suggestion.

Rest, Snorlax, Snore, Sleep Talk, Nightmare, Dream Eater, Early Bird, Bad Dreams.  I could totally be missing something that has to do with Sleep, but I think that's a fair basis for an argument against such a rule.

Such a rule may be "realistic" in the sense that in our world we would likely rule someone who fell asleep in the middle of a fight as out, but it runs contrary to reality of the Pokemon world.

the_taken

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Fear of Monkeys!
    • davidpetrie.info
    • Email
Re: Pokemon SAME
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2008, 11:45:03 PM »
In addition to the Pokemon and Attacks, there are 123 Abilities if I'm recalling the number correctly.  While you could include those as part of the Pokemon, it seems to me you can feel like you've accomplished more by considering them separately.  Happily, some of them seem to lack in battle effects and won't be as troublesome to convert.

Some abilities are simple. Flame Body has a 1 in 6 chance of causing the Burn condition in retaliation to a physical attack. I know it's one in ten on the game boy, but there's going to be allot less fights than in the video game, so every ability has to matter.

Sleep can work the same way as Freeze, but realistically the result of being KO'ed from chemicals or magic is the same as being pummeled into fainting: Unconsciousness. As an optional rule, Sleep inducing moves officially take a PkMn out of a fight if they succeed, like Fissure and Guillotine and must follow the same pattern: 30% accuracy, which becomes -5 to the attack roll in SAME.
Quote
I believe this is a poor suggestion.

Rest, Snorlax, Snore, Sleep Talk, Nightmare, Dream Eater, Early Bird, Bad Dreams. I could totally be missing something that has to do with Sleep, but I think that's a fair basis for an argument against such a rule.

Only a suggestion for now...

Quote
Such a rule may be "realistic" in the sense that in our world we would likely rule someone who fell asleep in the middle of a fight as out, but it runs contrary to reality of the Pokemon world.

This last part reminds me of why fighter sucked so much balls in 3e. Your argument goes in the opposite direction, which greatly earns my applause. Standing ovation to you!

-------

For the most part, many things need to be created for outside of combat. It's not enough that we have rules for attacks and Hp. We need rules for pokemon using abilities to complete non-combat tasks that perpetuate and colour the world beyond the arena. And some of those things will involve making things work more like they do in the show. (Yes I know, the show is full of bull, but it's a start.)

If sleep becomes a 1-hit KO attacks, then the abilities and moves that are based apon the status condition can be moved into the utility box.
Rest becomes an ability that makes it so that the user completely restores its Hp between battles.
Hypnosis and Dream Eater become espionage abilities, revealing otherwise sensitive information.
Nightmare becomes a pre-combat debuff you can abuse in advance.
And Bad Dreams becomes a story effect, like Mewtwo's Rainy Day of Apocalypse

the_taken

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Fear of Monkeys!
    • davidpetrie.info
    • Email
Re: Pokemon SAME
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2008, 02:00:15 AM »
Quote of FrankTrollman
Also, the Joy family just has extremely dominant genes. We've actually met the various fathers that Nurse Joys have had and they are different. However, their mothers were all Nurse Joys. The Nurse Joys we encounter in Pokemon are all first and second cousins. And they aren't all nurses, a few of them are scientists and secret agents and stuff.

If you marry a Nurse Joy you are accepting that your children will probably be girls. They will have pink hair and your wife will insist on naming them Joy. But there are families involved, and Nurse Joys reproduce sexually, and they aren't all exactly the same.

-Frank

Quote of FrankTrollman

Joys and Jennys can indeed pass for each other quite easily. There are documented cases of cousins passing as each other with alterations as simple as swapping hats. I can even think of a case in which a Joy was mistaken for her own grand-daughter but that involved time travel.

F***ing Celebi.

-Frank

-------

Ever notice that pokemon pairs usually produce offspring that is the same species as the female in the pair? :plot

the_taken

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Fear of Monkeys!
    • davidpetrie.info
    • Email
Re: Pokemon SAME
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2008, 02:33:32 AM »
Trainer Abilities
So your pokemon can beat other pokemon up. And this makes you special how? Managing ability points and your pokemon's obedience is a simple mathematics challenge, and is simply not enough to differentiate Bug/Fire trainer Jim from Grass/Flying trainer Bob. Different people develop different skills throughout their life, and different trainers have different talents. So what we're going to make are abilities that your character can acquire that give him little quirks and tactical options.

The Rule: After the first character level, each character gains a special ability.

These will have a format like D&D3e's feats (name, prerequisites and benefits), but will be designed to never, EVER directly affect the outcome of battles. They will add purely adventuring gimmicks or flavourful options to you character. Example:

Antidote Maker
Prerequisites: Lvl5 bug, grass or poison type trainer
Benefits: You can extract venom and toxins from pokemon to create antidotes. The pokemon must have an ability or move which may inflict Poison. You require a set of equipment and a container for each dose of Antidote you wish to create. Blah, blah, blah, etc..

Then we can also create things called "Exploits"; abilities you automatically gain by having the prerequisites. Example:

Wandering Pharmacy
If you have all six anti-status item creation abilities, you can make Full Heals. You require a set of equipment and a container for each Full Resore you wish to create. Blah, blah, blah, etc..
If you have all six anti-status item creation abilities and the Healer ability, you can make Full Restores. You need tools and containers...

-------

Kung-fu Teacher
Prerequisites: Fighting type trainer
Benefit: Any move of the Fighting type with a power 6 less than you level that you have witnessed being used in a battle, you can teach to a pokemon that can learn that move. You have become a living TM box.

Yeah, this one is very powerful... need to find a way to control what you can teach and learn. But it is the basis for the next ability.

Kung-fu Warrior
Prerequisites: Kung-fu Teacher ability
Benefits: Any Fighting type move you can teach is a move you can perform. You gain STAB when using Fighting type moves as if you were a Fighting type pokemon.
When you are subject to attacks , you count as being a Fighting type pokemon.

Nutty enough for you?

yellerSumner

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
Re: Pokemon SAME
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2008, 07:00:15 AM »
Some abilities are simple. Flame Body has a 1 in 6 chance of causing the Burn condition in retaliation to a physical attack.

That is true, some are pretty simple since they fit neatly into battle.  Some are a bit more difficult.. not that I'm putting enough effort to find an example.

Some would interact with things outside of battle, however.  Like Pick-Up.  You'd have to come up with all the items first.

Quote
I know it's one in ten on the game boy, but there's going to be allot less fights than in the video game, so every ability has to matter.
Well, actually, Flame Body and similar moves have a 30% chance, so they'd be closer if they inflicted their status on a 5 or a 6 rather than just on a 6.  It's moves like Ice Beam that have a 1 in 10 chance to inflict the status condition.

And I was going to ask about that, thanks for clearing up your reasoning on that.


Quote
For the most part, many things need to be created for outside of combat. It's not enough that we have rules for attacks and Hp. We need rules for pokemon using abilities to complete non-combat tasks that perpetuate and colour the world beyond the arena. And some of those things will involve making things work more like they do in the show. (Yes I know, the show is full of bull, but it's a start.)

Well, the main bull that the show is full of is regarding the human characters, not the ad hoc uses for Pokemon attacks and abilities.

Ash - Is considered a good trainer.  Is considered a successful trainer.  IS A COMPLETE IDIOT.

Brock & Misty - "I'm the Pewter City Gym Leader" "And I'm the Cerulean City Gym Leader" "And why the hell aren't you at your gyms?"

Jessie & James - Why haven't they been fired yet?  And by fired I do mean found dead in a ditch.

Often the creative and inventive uses aren't all that bullfull. 
Though, the simplest way to cover those uses would be to take some examples from the show, give them a target number, and use the attack to see if it works.


Kung-fu Teacher
Prerequisites: Fighting type trainer
Benefit: Any move of the Fighting type with a power 6 less than you level that you have witnessed being used in a battle, you can teach to a pokemon that can learn that move. You have become a living TM box.

Yeah, this one is very powerful... need to find a way to control what you can teach and learn. But it is the basis for the next ability.
You could power it down by making TMs and non-TM moves separate rather than any Fighting move.


Quote
Kung-fu Warrior
Prerequisites: Kung-fu Teacher ability
Benefits: Any Fighting type move you can teach is a move you can perform. You gain STAB when using Fighting type moves as if you were a Fighting type pokemon.
When you are subject to attacks , you count as being a Fighting type pokemon.

Nutty enough for you?

If by "nutty" you mean "silly because it doesn't go anywhere near far enough when it comes to humans using Pokemon moves," then yes.  (For one, you'd think if humans could learn Fighting moves, they should probably be able to learn Normal moves as well, the physical moves anyway.)


My friend came up with the idea of human clones spliced with Pokemon DNA and having powers based on their type.  Psychic-type, of course, would have psychic powers. Fire-, Water-, Electric-types would be pyro-, aqua-, and electrokineticists respectively.  Normal would be overall enhanced performance compared to non-spliced humans and Fighting would have significant physical enhancement and good fighting instincts.  And so on.

We've only ever used the idea in freeform so far, so we've had the ones we've used have a looser adaptation of the powers rather than limiting them to Pokemon attacks.


So yeah, limiting the concept to Fighting-type is kinda nutty in my opinion.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 07:54:50 AM by yellerSumner »

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: Pokemon SAME
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2008, 01:11:13 PM »
My friend came up with the idea of human clones spliced with Pokemon DNA and having powers based on their type.  Psychic-type, of course, would have psychic powers. Fire-, Water-, Electric-types would be pyro-, aqua-, and electrokineticists respectively.  Normal would be overall enhanced performance compared to non-spliced humans and Fighting would have significant physical enhancement and good fighting instincts.  And so on.

Have you read the manga? Blaine (the Fire Gym Leader, who works for Team Rocket in the manga) created Mewtwo by combining Mew's DNA with his own - he also has some of Mewtwo's DNA in his hand, allowing him to sense Mewtwo. Well, I haven't read the manga, but that's what I heard...
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

the_taken

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Fear of Monkeys!
    • davidpetrie.info
    • Email
Re: Pokemon SAME
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2008, 07:40:37 PM »

If by "nutty" you mean "silly because it doesn't go anywhere near far enough when it comes to humans using Pokemon moves," then yes.  (For one, you'd think if humans could learn Fighting moves, they should probably be able to learn Normal moves as well, the physical moves anyway.)

It's supposed to be an example. Neither definitive nor all encompassing. I'm seriously thinking of coming up with dozens of non-combat related abilities. Kung-fu Teacher was supposed to be an ability that makes you a Move Tutor for fighting moves.

Quote
You could power it down by making TMs and non-TM moves separate rather than any Fighting move.

There isn't really pattern to any move being an HM/TM/Tutor/Egg move. TMs are just one method of getting a move taught to a pokemon that it wouldn't normally learn. Sometimes a TM move is also an Egg move that a parent can learn. It's not a big deal.

What we will be doing away with are the silly HMs. They're fine in the video game, but they're pointless in an RPG. If you want to hop onto a Seal's back and have it carry you across a river, just do it. Surf is an attack move that you can even teach to smaller pokemon that you couldn't catch ride on, like Raichu. Surfing is a stunt you can perform using a plank and a really big wave. If you want to Fly over a mountain to a certain city, get on a really big flying pokemon, like Wheezing, and just go there.

Quote
My friend came up with the idea of human clones spliced with Pokemon DNA and having powers based on their type.  Psychic-type, of course, would have psychic powers. Fire-, Water-, Electric-types would be pyro-, aqua-, and electrokineticists respectively.  Normal would be overall enhanced performance compared to non-spliced humans and Fighting would have significant physical enhancement and good fighting instincts.  And so on.

I don't see your point. Please rephrase.

the_taken

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Fear of Monkeys!
    • davidpetrie.info
    • Email
Re: Pokemon SAME
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2008, 08:54:52 PM »
Collecting Badges
The primary driving force of the world for every trainer is to be declared The Pokémon Master; the world's best trainer with the world's best pokémon. Being the Pokémon Master is like being Ruslan Chagaev, and your pokémon are KISS. You are the envy of trainers everywhere, and the celebrated hero whatever ground you walk on. People will jump ship, just to stay below your head, that is, until your dead or they find someone better.
Climbing to the top of the social-economic ladder of Pokéworld isn't as simple as catching the biggest PkMn and using it to beat Blain, or Larry, or whoever is the current master of the elite four. Such would generate a endless line of would be challengers hoping their Pidgey is the biggest and baddest Pokémon around. There's a highly formalized system of flaming hoops of various heights that both aid a would be challenger in getting ready for the big fights, and weed out those that are less than worthy. As proof of their abilities, trainers obtain badges from various gyms across the land to earn the right to enter the Pokémon League and chalenge the Elite Four.
Badges are gained from defeating a gym leader in a gym challenge. Gym leaders are usually selected as the strongest and most capable of the adherents to certain Pokémon types, roughly translating to the game as having a very high level. One may certainly ask how can the players hope to gain a Badge even after months of play if a gym leader is always such a powerful opponent?
The answer is simply that winning a gym challenge is not the same as defeating the best that a gym has to offer. Brock and Misty may very well be 15th level Trainers, but they won't pull out their biggest and baddest Pokémon for Badge Matches. Badge matches are very formalized, and the gym leader isn't throwing out anything close to their strongest Pokemon. On the other hand, the challenger is supposed to be using her strongest Pokémon - it's expected that a Badge Challenger is not going to be as strong as a gym leader and it would be fairly pointless if each new candidate had to be stronger than the gym leader. This creates the important distinction between attempting to obtain a badge, and challenging the gym leader.

Badge Matches and Gym Matches
Successfully obtaining a badge proves that a pokémon trainer understands the philosophies of the Gym's combat school, and is worthy of Gym Membership. But what if a trainer wishes to push herself (and her pokémon) - to prove that the Gym may not be worthy of her?
That's where Gym matches come in. These are still settled with strict rules, but there is a crucial difference. The battle is for the honour of the Gym, not the challenger's career, and the Gym leader is expected to use their strongest pokémon and techniques. Obviously, a prospective Gym challenger would have to prove herself in many ways just to be granted an opportunity to compete in a Gym match. The winner of a Gym match is frequently made Gym Leader if she wasn't before. The loser is deeply shamed. Gym matches are a big affair, and rarely happen.

Badges
Badges come in a variety of levels, and vary greatly dependant upon the issuing Gym, much like the coloured belts of real world martial arts. Generally, a Gym will issue an apprenticeship Badge for newcomers to the school, or would be Pokémon League competitors. To qualify one normally has to perform a relatively simple task - defeat another apprentice of the Gym, or defeat the Gym Leader's three newest, barely trained Pokémon. The apprenticeship Badge is proof that its bearer has a basic understanding of the philosophies and techniques of the Gym.

Most Gyms also issue a membership Badge. Possession of such a Badge indicates a formidable amount of skill as it indicates that the bearer has overcome a moderate obstacle, such as besting 3 of the Gym Leader's Lvl 5 Pokémon in sequential single combat. Such a Badge usually takes the form of a signet ring or other nearly unforgeable and permanent item. Particularly wealthy Gyms sometimes give out a useful device with or as the badge, such as an HM, Bicycle or cellphone.

Finally, Gyms often provide a Master's Badge; proof of being an avatar of the Gym's philosophies and style. Only a few can aspire to such a Badge, as the trial is gruelling in the extreme. Most Gyms provide an actual magic item as their Master's Badge.

Rules of Engagement
In a formal Pokemon match, whether it is for Badges, a Gym, or just honor, the rules are pretty much the same:
  • No one dies. Not the trainers, not the Pokemon. This rule comes first. Regardless of what you are fighting for noone uses potentially lethal attacks. This means that Guillotine cannot be used, as it often kills the target via decapitation.
  • Pokemon fight alone. The Trainers and bystanders do not interfere with the Pokémon - to help or hinder either side. No items, nor devices, other than those the Pokémon carry into the fight with them. Also, Pokémon do not summon other Pokémon to the battle. Moves like U-turn, Baton Pass, and Roar are barred.
  • Pokémon fight each other. That means that their attacks are not to directly or indirectly attack the other trainer or bystanders. If a trainer's Jigglypuff lulls anyone out other than the opponent's pokémon, the trainer is disqualified.
  • No substitutions. A Trainer decides their order of Pokémon before the match, and may not recall or transfer Pokémon once the match has begun.
  • One fall and you're out. When a Pokémon gets knocked out or surrenders - it is out of the match. Even if it is revived before the match is done it can't come back into the match.
.
Badges? We Don't Need No Stinking Badges!
Not all trainers compete for Badges at all. There are some who refuse to pursue the lure of Badges and Gym acceptance. Often as not, these Gymless Trainers congregate together and ironically behave exactly like a Gym in all but name.