Author Topic: Ask a simple question...4e style  (Read 34580 times)

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ShaggyShaggs

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #80 on: June 11, 2008, 03:30:44 AM »
So cust serv knows how to play with the english language and make the distinction between "used" and "using". :o

That is quite a far cry from the cust serv of yesteryear... :P
Yeah, that's not what I wanted to hear from custserv, but it seems sane, and literate.  Though I, too, could do without the bang.
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munin

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #81 on: June 11, 2008, 03:34:46 AM »
Keep in mind, though, that if any other power shows up with the same general wording ("recover a power that you have already used") you could cycle between that one and Crescendo Sword.

Given the history of WOTC and splatbooks, it's only a matter of time.
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munin

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #82 on: June 11, 2008, 03:47:12 AM »
Actually, hold on, I just figured out how it could work.

The Epic Destiny, "Deadly Trickster", has the Epic Trick power that allows you to regain all daily powers except Epic Trick.

Thus, if you had the Epic Destiny "Deadly Trickster" and you had the Crescendo Sword power, you could conceivably spam it all day long:

Use Crescendo Sword first, then Epic Trick.  Since you've already used Crescendo Sword that day (despite having regained it) you could then get around that bit of language-lawyering and spam away.
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan/A stately Pleasure-dome decree/Where Alph, the sacred river, ran/Through caverns measureless to man/Down to a sunless sea

Dan2

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #83 on: June 11, 2008, 03:55:22 AM »
A30: I know I'm the one who asked, but if anyone cares, I got an email response from custserv about it.

Quote
Customer (Daniel Thorpe)   06/10/2008 08:25 AM
How, exactly does the Archmage's level 30 ability work?

Do you gain a free encounter spell, or do you have to replace one.

Does it take up your daily spot as normal?

Can you prepare the other daily spell you have for that level?

I have a suspicion that all that changes is the word "Daily" on the spell, but I'd like confirmation

Quote
Response (Support Agent)   06/10/2008 04:12 PM
Daniel,

Thank you for writing. You do not lose an encounter power from your repertoire, you simply shift a daily power to an encounter power.

No, it does not take up a daily spot, and you can prepare your other daily spell as normal.

Good Gaming!

This makes the Archmage seem a whole lot better.  He has 5 Encounter Powers and 4 Daily Powers!  When you consider that he's probably going to have Legion's Hold as his 5th encounter power, I'd say this is almost as good as the Demigod.

heffroncm

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #84 on: June 11, 2008, 04:52:01 AM »
Great news there Dan2, thanks for the info.

Munin, good idea, and if you can find a DM to allow it I'll send you 5 bucks :-P  Seriously, this could have been easily handled with better wording.  Set Encounter and Daily powers up with 2 states, Ready and Expended, and the whole thing is taken care of.  That's the obvious enough intent, it just wasn't properly codified.

ShaggyShaggs

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #85 on: June 11, 2008, 04:59:27 AM »
Munin DMs, and I think he just about wet himself upon seeing the 4E goblin racial power, remembering my 3.5 goblin PC in his game. :smirk
"Your STFU N00b roll fails!"
"Crap. Can I make a saving LOL?"

"I think either we have unlimited rights, or we have no rights at all. Personally, I lean toward unlimited rights. I feel, for instance, I have the right to do anything I please; but, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. So where you gonna find a fairer fucking deal than that?" - George Carlin

munin

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #86 on: June 11, 2008, 05:06:26 AM »
Great news there Dan2, thanks for the info.

Munin, good idea, and if you can find a DM to allow it I'll send you 5 bucks :-P  Seriously, this could have been easily handled with better wording.  Set Encounter and Daily powers up with 2 states, Ready and Expended, and the whole thing is taken care of.  That's the obvious enough intent, it just wasn't properly codified.

I'd allow it....

...but one of the features of my games is that reputations get around, so any villain worth his salt would know better than to let people get within melee range of that guy afterwards.  :)

Quote from: ShaggyShaggs
Munin DMs, and I think he just about wet himself upon seeing the 4E goblin racial power, remembering my 3.5 goblin PC in his game.

Not as much as you might think, given that the power only happens when someone misses on the bloody thing.  :-\

[EDIT:  Misses, not hits.  Misses, not hits.  No idea why I keep messing that up.]
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 05:46:02 AM by munin »
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munin

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #87 on: June 11, 2008, 06:01:25 AM »
Q32

I'm building a party based on a specific small race which is listed in the MM as "You can use such-and-such as an at-will power"

My question:  Does this take the place of one of the normally-expected at-will powers from the character's class, or is this a power that you can use in addition to the normal quota of at-will powers?
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MittenNinja

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #88 on: June 11, 2008, 06:09:03 AM »
A32

No it does not. There is no set limitation on how many at-will powers you can know other than the fact that the classes give you access to two.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 06:11:07 AM by MittenNinja »

munin

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #89 on: June 11, 2008, 06:13:31 AM »
A32

No it does not. There is no set limitation on how many at-will powers you can know other than the fact that the classes give you access to two.

Aha, thank you!  I thought that it might work like that (else why bother playing one of the small races?) but wanted to be sure.  :clap
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Archmage Joda

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #90 on: June 11, 2008, 06:53:00 AM »
Q33 I saw mention of a way for archmage to continuously refresh their daily powers. How does this work (full explanation please, I'm rather dim at this 4e stuff currently)?
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AlienFromBeyond

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #91 on: June 11, 2008, 09:26:46 AM »
Actually, hold on, I just figured out how it could work.

The Epic Destiny, "Deadly Trickster", has the Epic Trick power that allows you to regain all daily powers except Epic Trick.

Thus, if you had the Epic Destiny "Deadly Trickster" and you had the Crescendo Sword power, you could conceivably spam it all day long:

Use Crescendo Sword first, then Epic Trick.  Since you've already used Crescendo Sword that day (despite having regained it) you could then get around that bit of language-lawyering and spam away.
Epic Trick is not a Daily Power, it is a Utility Power that can be used daily. This is a distinction the game makes.

munin

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #92 on: June 11, 2008, 09:33:42 AM »
Actually, hold on, I just figured out how it could work.

The Epic Destiny, "Deadly Trickster", has the Epic Trick power that allows you to regain all daily powers except Epic Trick.

Thus, if you had the Epic Destiny "Deadly Trickster" and you had the Crescendo Sword power, you could conceivably spam it all day long:

Use Crescendo Sword first, then Epic Trick.  Since you've already used Crescendo Sword that day (despite having regained it) you could then get around that bit of language-lawyering and spam away.
Epic Trick is not a Daily Power, it is a Utility Power that can be used daily. This is a distinction the game makes.

Apologies for the summarization.  The text for Epic Tric specifies "...or recover all expended daily powers except this one."
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heffroncm

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #93 on: June 11, 2008, 12:32:49 PM »
Actually, hold on, I just figured out how it could work.

The Epic Destiny, "Deadly Trickster", has the Epic Trick power that allows you to regain all daily powers except Epic Trick.

Thus, if you had the Epic Destiny "Deadly Trickster" and you had the Crescendo Sword power, you could conceivably spam it all day long:

Use Crescendo Sword first, then Epic Trick.  Since you've already used Crescendo Sword that day (despite having regained it) you could then get around that bit of language-lawyering and spam away.
Epic Trick is not a Daily Power, it is a Utility Power that can be used daily. This is a distinction the game makes.

It's not an especially important disctinction, though.  There are two types of powers, Attack and Utility.  Of those types, there are three Availabilities, At Will, Encounter, and Daily.

AlienFromBeyond

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #94 on: June 11, 2008, 11:03:38 PM »
Actually, hold on, I just figured out how it could work.

The Epic Destiny, "Deadly Trickster", has the Epic Trick power that allows you to regain all daily powers except Epic Trick.

Thus, if you had the Epic Destiny "Deadly Trickster" and you had the Crescendo Sword power, you could conceivably spam it all day long:

Use Crescendo Sword first, then Epic Trick.  Since you've already used Crescendo Sword that day (despite having regained it) you could then get around that bit of language-lawyering and spam away.
Epic Trick is not a Daily Power, it is a Utility Power that can be used daily. This is a distinction the game makes.

It's not an especially important disctinction, though.  There are two types of powers, Attack and Utility.  Of those types, there are three Availabilities, At Will, Encounter, and Daily.
Hmm, a closer look at the power section at the beginning of the character classes section shows that you are right. I guess you can spam the two powers together in tandem, until you miss with Crescendo Sword anyways :P.

heffroncm

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #95 on: June 12, 2008, 01:22:21 AM »
Actually, hold on, I just figured out how it could work.

The Epic Destiny, "Deadly Trickster", has the Epic Trick power that allows you to regain all daily powers except Epic Trick.

Thus, if you had the Epic Destiny "Deadly Trickster" and you had the Crescendo Sword power, you could conceivably spam it all day long:

Use Crescendo Sword first, then Epic Trick.  Since you've already used Crescendo Sword that day (despite having regained it) you could then get around that bit of language-lawyering and spam away.
Epic Trick is not a Daily Power, it is a Utility Power that can be used daily. This is a distinction the game makes.

It's not an especially important disctinction, though.  There are two types of powers, Attack and Utility.  Of those types, there are three Availabilities, At Will, Encounter, and Daily.
Hmm, a closer look at the power section at the beginning of the character classes section shows that you are right. I guess you can spam the two powers together in tandem, until you miss with Crescendo Sword anyways :P.
Epic Trick cannot be recovered in any way other than an Extended Rest.  As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Wizards really needs to eratta the language to Readied and Expended to avoid these kinds of issues with powers that re-ready other powers.

ShaggyShaggs

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #96 on: June 12, 2008, 01:27:12 AM »
Actually, hold on, I just figured out how it could work.

The Epic Destiny, "Deadly Trickster", has the Epic Trick power that allows you to regain all daily powers except Epic Trick.

Thus, if you had the Epic Destiny "Deadly Trickster" and you had the Crescendo Sword power, you could conceivably spam it all day long:

Use Crescendo Sword first, then Epic Trick.  Since you've already used Crescendo Sword that day (despite having regained it) you could then get around that bit of language-lawyering and spam away.
Epic Trick is not a Daily Power, it is a Utility Power that can be used daily. This is a distinction the game makes.

It's not an especially important disctinction, though.  There are two types of powers, Attack and Utility.  Of those types, there are three Availabilities, At Will, Encounter, and Daily.
Hmm, a closer look at the power section at the beginning of the character classes section shows that you are right. I guess you can spam the two powers together in tandem, until you miss with Crescendo Sword anyways :P.
Epic Trick cannot be recovered in any way other than an Extended Rest.  As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Wizards really needs to eratta the language to Readied and Expended to avoid these kinds of issues with powers that re-ready other powers.
That's true, and it's for the best as far as avoiding breaking the game goes.  However, it does still enable Crescendo Sword spam, I think.

Round 1: Use Crescendo Sword
Round 2: Use Epic Trick; recover Crescendo Sword (and all other daily powers except this one)
Round 3: Use Crescendo Sword; check if you already used Crescendo Sword (Yes, on Round 1); recover Crescendo Sword
Round 4: Use Crescendo Sword; check if you already used Crescendo Sword (Yes, on Rounds 1 and 3); recover Crescendo Sword
Etc...
"Your STFU N00b roll fails!"
"Crap. Can I make a saving LOL?"

"I think either we have unlimited rights, or we have no rights at all. Personally, I lean toward unlimited rights. I feel, for instance, I have the right to do anything I please; but, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. So where you gonna find a fairer fucking deal than that?" - George Carlin

heffroncm

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #97 on: June 12, 2008, 01:30:58 AM »
Yeah, I sent a reply to the CustServ e-mail with the Epic Trick abuse by their wording.  Let's see how creative they can get now.

munin

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #98 on: June 12, 2008, 02:00:31 AM »
Yeah, I sent a reply to the CustServ e-mail with the Epic Trick abuse by their wording.  Let's see how creative they can get now.

They'll probably say that they'll address it in the errata, and to be sure to buy their D&D Insider! to be sure to get the update.

Either that, or they've managed to put Essence of Politician in potion form.
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heffroncm

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #99 on: June 12, 2008, 02:10:21 AM »
They'll probably say that they'll address it in the errata, and to be sure to buy their D&D Insider! to be sure to get the update.

Either that, or they've managed to put Essence of Politician in potion form.

Um.  I've received a plethroa of completely free rules clarifications from CustServ, and not once have they mentioned DDI.  The two are seperate parts of the company, and to accuse CustServ of such actions given the amount of effort and help they've put forth in the past 5 days since the books hit the shelves is rather ignoble of you.

In any case, the subject has gone far beyond the scope of this thread.  If you folks would care to discuss Blade Crescendo further, let's move it to a new thread.

Anyone have any more questions?