Author Topic: Ask a simple question...4e style  (Read 34049 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Kuroimaken

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 6733
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #140 on: August 17, 2008, 07:09:11 AM »
Q49: Considering Shuriken are sold in bundles of 5 and are "thrown only" weapons, would the price for a magic weapon apply to only one Shuriken or to sets of five?
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Momar

  • Monkey bussiness
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • Email
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #141 on: August 18, 2008, 10:59:27 PM »
Q50: Concerning the Mad Wraith's (MM 266) touch of chaos ability, is it considered forced movement when the target moves to attack?

PhoenixInferno

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1360
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #142 on: August 31, 2008, 11:03:45 AM »
Q51: Swordmage's Frost Backlash is an Immediate Interrupt that triggers on hit - does that mean if the attack kills the originator of the attack, the attack never occurs, or just the damage never happens.  I believe the answer is yes, but I just want clarification.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 11:08:18 AM by PhoenixInferno »

X-Codes

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #143 on: August 31, 2008, 02:14:06 PM »
Q51: Swordmage's Frost Backlash is an Immediate Interrupt that triggers on hit - does that mean if the attack kills the originator of the attack, the attack never occurs, or just the damage never happens.  I believe the answer is yes, but I just want clarification.
The attack never occurs because Frost Backlash happens first, and if the attacker is dead then they can't attack.

DemonLord57

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
    • Email
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #144 on: August 31, 2008, 07:16:11 PM »
Q48: Would characters or other critters riding some sort flying contraption, such as an airship or flying carpet, still be affected by the Tarrasque's aura at all? What about a cloud chariot or other conjuration?
A48: No, they wouldn't be affected by the reduced fly speed or reduced altitude, (as only creatures are affected, and they're not the ones with the fly speed and max altitude) but yes, they would be affected by the latter part of the aura's text.
Text:
Quote from: MM, 13
Earthbinding aura 40; any flying creature in the aura has its fly speed reduced to 1 and maximum altitude reduced to 20 feet (putting it within the tarrasque’s reach). Any creature above this altitude at the end of its turn falls to an altitude of 20 feet automatically.
As you can see, you'll fall somehow. It doesn't exactly tell you the interaction between this and flying things, but I would think it would cause a great amount of force on the creatures until they are within 20 feet, which may or may not move the flying object being used, but will definitely keep them pinned to the ground. Of course, you may rule that if they have something keeping them from falling (keeping them basically flying) then it doesn't apply.

Q49: Considering Shuriken are sold in bundles of 5 and are "thrown only" weapons, would the price for a magic weapon apply to only one Shuriken or to sets of five?
A49: One. Magic enhancements are now all per weapon, and they made throwing weapons return to you. No more abuse using magic enhancements that aren't related to the weapon's effectiveness/longevity in use on ammunition.

Q50: Concerning the Mad Wraith's (MM 266) touch of chaos ability, is it considered forced movement when the target moves to attack?
A50: No. Forced Movement is only push, pull, and slide, and also other things would prevent it from being forced movement anyway.
Relevant text: (underlined is important text)
Quote from: PHB, 285
[size=+1]Pull, Push, and Slide[/size]
Certain powers and effects allow you to pull, push, or slide a target.
PULL, PUSH, AND SLIDE
? Pull: When you pull a creature, each square you move it must bring it nearer to you.
? Push: When you push a creature, each square you move it must place it farther away from you.
? Slide: When you slide a creature, there’s no restriction on the direction you can move it.
Whether you’re pulling, pushing, or sliding a target, certain rules govern all forced movement.
FORCED MOVEMENT
? Line of Effect: You must have line of effect to any square you pull, push, or slide a creature into.
? Distance in Squares: The power you’re using specifies how many squares you can move a target. You can choose to move the target fewer squares or not to move it at all. You can’t move the target vertically.
? Specific Destination: Some powers don’t specify a distance in squares but instead specify a destination, such as “adjacent” (a square adjacent to you).
? No Opportunity Attacks: Forced movement does not provoke opportunity attacks or other opportunity actions.
? Ignore Difficult Terrain: Forced movement isn’t hindered by difficult terrain.
? Not a Move: Forced movement doesn’t count against a target’s ability to move on its turn. A target’s speed is irrelevant to the distance you move it.
The movement that the target takes would provoke OAs and be affected by difficult terrain. Notice that while it never explicitly states that it's only push, pull, and slide, it heavily implies it with the text preceding the forced movement list and the line of effect bullet in said list.

Q51: Swordmage's Frost Backlash is an Immediate Interrupt that triggers on hit - does that mean if the attack kills the originator of the attack, the attack never occurs, or just the damage never happens.  I believe the answer is yes, but I just want clarification.
The attack never occurs because Frost Backlash happens first, and if the attacker is dead then they can't attack.
But the power would still be expended. (I believe, it never explains well what happens when your action is interrupted)

X-Codes

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #145 on: August 31, 2008, 09:30:39 PM »
But the power would still be expended. (I believe, it never explains well what happens when your action is interrupted)
Doesn't matter what happens when you kill an NPC if their power was expended or not, they're dead!

As for whether or not your power was expended when doing so, of course it is!

If YOU trigger an Immediate Interrupt by using a power and get killed by the Interrupt... then I don't know, I'd think it wouldn't get expended.

DemonLord57

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
    • Email
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #146 on: September 01, 2008, 02:47:33 AM »
But the power would still be expended. (I believe, it never explains well what happens when your action is interrupted)
Doesn't matter what happens when you kill an NPC if their power was expended or not, they're dead!

As for whether or not your power was expended when doing so, of course it is!

If YOU trigger an Immediate Interrupt by using a power and get killed by the Interrupt... then I don't know, I'd think it wouldn't get expended.
As I said, there's insufficiently clear text on this topic, so I can't really argue that that view is incorrect. I just think (my view) that you would lose it.
The unclear relevant text:
Quote from: PHB, 268, about immediate actions
- Interrupt: An immediate interrupt lets you jump in when a certain trigger condition arises, acting before the trigger resolves. If an interrupt invalidates a triggering action, that action is lost. For example, an enemy makes a melee attack against you, but you use a power that lets you shift away as an immediate interrupt. If your enemy can no longer reach you, the enemy’s attack action is lost.
The 'action' or 'attack action' is lost. Now, what does that mean? ...... ??? Would you simply lose the standard action you used to attack, or would the power continue to expend itself? When does expending happen? <insert host of other strange things not mentioned in the PHB that make this more confusing>? Since nothing about losing actions is mentioned at all elsewhere, or what an 'attack action' even is, let alone answering these relevant questions... yeah, slightly confusing.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 02:51:15 AM by DemonLord57 »

Kuroimaken

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 6733
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #147 on: September 01, 2008, 03:55:06 AM »
Quote
A49: One. Magic enhancements are now all per weapon, and they made throwing weapons return to you. No more abuse using magic enhancements that aren't related to the weapon's effectiveness/longevity in use on ammunition.

Yeah, that's the thing. That's what I figured as well, but I can't find any specific rules text on this - and shuriken are, effectively, ammunition-only weapons. Every other piece of ammo in the PHB has a "propelling system" (slings--> bullets, crossbow--> bolts, bows--> arrows). Shuriken don't.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


DemonLord57

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 164
    • Email
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #148 on: September 01, 2008, 05:02:52 AM »
Quote
A49: One. Magic enhancements are now all per weapon, and they made throwing weapons return to you. No more abuse using magic enhancements that aren't related to the weapon's effectiveness/longevity in use on ammunition.

Yeah, that's the thing. That's what I figured as well, but I can't find any specific rules text on this - and shuriken are, effectively, ammunition-only weapons. Every other piece of ammo in the PHB has a "propelling system" (slings--> bullets, crossbow--> bolts, bows--> arrows). Shuriken don't.
You are using 3e logic to cloud your judgment. It's clearly not 1/5 the price to do magically enhance ammunition as you can't magically enhance ammunition.
Quote from: PHB, 232
Ammunition: Ranged weapons such as bows, crossbows, and slings impart their magic to appropriate ammunition fired from them. Ammunition (such as arrows, bolts, or sling stones) doesn’t come in magical versions. You can’t craft (or find) a +1 flameburst arrow or a +3 sling stone.
Besides that, there is a separate category for what a shuriken is: a thrown weapon.
Quote from: PHB, 232
Thrown Weapons: Any magic light thrown or heavy thrown weapon, from the lowly +1 shuriken to a +6 perfect hunter’s spear, automatically returns to its wielder’s hand after a ranged attack with the weapon is resolved.

Catching a returning thrown weapon is a free action; if you do not wish (or are unable) to catch the weapon, it falls at your feet in your space.
Shuriken are weapons, whereas all ammunition are... ammunition. Shuriken are listed on the weapon table, ammunition is not. You can enhance shuriken, you cannot with ammunition. There is nothing at all that remotely suggests that you enhance shurikens in groups of 5. You are using 3e concepts/ideas to extrapolate that the stats for the mundane ones could mean that they are enhanced in groups of 5, but the leap is unwarranted.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 05:08:06 AM by DemonLord57 »

Kuroimaken

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 6733
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #149 on: September 01, 2008, 09:27:08 PM »
Quote
You are using allowing 3e logic to cloud your judgment. It's clearly not 1/5 the price to do magically enhance ammunition as you can't magically enhance ammunition.

Because it makes no sense for me to use something to impair MY judgement.  ;)

Quote
Shuriken are weapons, whereas all ammunition are... ammunition. Shuriken are listed on the weapon table, ammunition is not. You can enhance shuriken, you cannot with ammunition. There is nothing at all that remotely suggests that you enhance shurikens in groups of 5. You are using 3e concepts/ideas to extrapolate that the stats for the mundane ones could mean that they are enhanced in groups of 5, but the leap is unwarranted.

Except every other thrown weapon is also listed as a melee weapon, with costs for a single unit. Hence my confusion.

Besides, what's the big deal with that anyway? It's not as if you can make multiple attacks without using a power. Heck, the only use I see for that would be to use Blinding Barrage, and it's a daily.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Agita

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5465
  • SFT is mai waifu.
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #150 on: September 07, 2008, 07:14:21 PM »
Q 52

Can you still voluntarily fail on rolls/attack rolls? Specifically, can you choose to fail your roll against yourself if you target Sleep centered on you (because you're, say, surrounded by enemies)?
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

Agita's Awesome Poster Compilation
Lycanthromancer's Awesome Poster Compilation

Kuroimaken

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 6733
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #151 on: September 07, 2008, 08:47:58 PM »
A52: I can't find any mention of being able to exclude/voluntarily fail rolls versus yourself on any part of the book. However, the Arcane Accuracy epic feat allows you to exclude a number of squares from any power you use equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Agita

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5465
  • SFT is mai waifu.
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #152 on: September 18, 2008, 07:54:46 AM »
Q 53

By Flame Sphere's wording, it could be sustained for the whole encounter with a single Minor action, is that correct?

Quote
Sustain Minor: You can sustain this power until the end of the encounter.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

Agita's Awesome Poster Compilation
Lycanthromancer's Awesome Poster Compilation

X-Codes

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3941
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #153 on: September 18, 2008, 10:07:21 AM »
A53 When sustaining a power, you must use the sustain action every turn.  A sustainable power pops at the end of the first turn you don't cast or sustain it.

Maximiano

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Good, good.
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #154 on: October 22, 2008, 04:44:09 AM »
Q54

Where can i find, if there is one, a list of defense scores averages for each monster.

Scenario:
My wizard is buffed in all knowledges, i auto-know name and keywords of monsters.
Being a human i can target all defenses of the beasts, so i need to know the lowest of each kind (brute,lurker, etc)

Good gaming for you.

Banor

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #155 on: October 22, 2008, 07:09:44 AM »
Brute tend to have a high Fortitude due to high CON/STR scores and low AC
Lurker/Skirmisher tend to have high Reflex
Controller tend to have good Will Saves
Artillery tend to have low AC

Kuroimaken

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 6733
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #156 on: October 22, 2008, 04:58:40 PM »
Q55:

Has a good book for 4e been out lately? We get them later than everyone else, so I figured I'd look around.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


Banor

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #157 on: October 23, 2008, 06:12:44 AM »
Adventurer Vault got some really items. I love it.

Forgotten Realm Player Guide is ok. Some Paragon are Decent, some suck totally. I love Dark Pact Warlock it put Striker back into Warlock.

Oshi

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 20
    • Email
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #158 on: November 01, 2008, 01:46:16 PM »
Q56: Rangers Archers Quarry, Do your opponents turn's count as different rounds for the extra damage. lets say you designate something as your quarry, hit it with something, do the extra damage. And then during their turn, do something like Disruptive Strike, an immidiate interupt; would that attack be elidgable for Quarry damage?

Q57: Battlefield archers ability to mark multiple enemies as their quarries. Are you still limited to doing quarry damage once per turn OR just once per quarry per turn?
"The greatest happiness is to vanquish your enemies,
to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth,
to see those dear to them bathed in tears,
to clasp to your bosom their wivesand daughters"
-GENGHIS KHAN

highbulp

  • Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 113
    • Email
Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #159 on: November 01, 2008, 04:07:37 PM »
Q56: Rangers Archers Quarry, Do your opponents turn's count as different rounds for the extra damage. lets say you designate something as your quarry, hit it with something, do the extra damage. And then during their turn, do something like Disruptive Strike, an immidiate interupt; would that attack be elidgable for Quarry damage?

Q57: Battlefield archers ability to mark multiple enemies as their quarries. Are you still limited to doing quarry damage once per turn OR just once per quarry per turn?

A56: No. A round is once through the initiative. A round involves each person taking a turn.
A57: You're limited to doing damage once per round, no matter how many quarries you have. The same way a Warlock's curse damage can only be applied once per round, even if they have cursed multiple people.