Author Topic: Ask a simple question...4e style  (Read 34553 times)

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Runestar

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Ask a simple question...4e style
« on: May 31, 2008, 05:01:54 AM »
Just thought I would get the ball rolling. Maybe we can start identifying potentially powerful stuff and rebuild the splendour of the CO boards in its prime. :P

1) This has already been raised on the other boards, but I thought I would discuss it here as well.
Astral storm vs meteor swarm. However you look at it, astral storm seems mathematically superior in every aspect. More damage and able to punch through resistances more easily. Does this seem odd, when we consider that the wizard should be a better blaster? Or was it deliberately weakened with the assumption that a wizard would augment it to an encounter power via the archmage epic destiny? :confused

2) Cleave - can I target the same foe twice, for weapon+2str damage? Does this then not make reaping strike useless?

3) How does temp hp interact with minions? No effect, since they automatically die when hit anyways?


« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 05:06:05 AM by Runestar »
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PhoenixInferno

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2008, 05:38:45 AM »
A2 I don't think so - Cleave should require a secondary target that is separate from the primary.
A3 Temp HP interacts with minions as normal, so you can make your minions last a little longer.  This was mentioned in the "Minions" excerpt.

Runestar

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2008, 05:54:51 AM »
A2 I don't think so - Cleave should require a secondary target that is separate from the primary.

Problem is that its entry states nothing of the sort. It simply states that I may strike a foe adjacent to me for str mod damage, which technically does not exclude the original target (though its flavour suggests otherwise).
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X-Codes

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2008, 06:07:30 AM »
A2 I don't think so - Cleave should require a secondary target that is separate from the primary.

Problem is that its entry states nothing of the sort. It simply states that I may strike a foe adjacent to me for str mod damage, which technically does not exclude the original target (though its flavour suggests otherwise).
Lemme put it to you this way:

Expect Errata.

Seriously, the new PHB is full of little errors like this.  It's nothing on the scale of Bo9, but really is a lot more than what should have happened given the CO review.  Chances are a lot of what was said by the reviewers was ignored, because I doubt that anyone really looking would have missed this.

Also, Minions don't die when hit.  They have 1 HP.  As such, Temp HP works normally.

brislove

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2008, 06:33:03 AM »
A1: Yup astral storm is simply better. It doesn't hit allies either ^_^.

Runestar

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2008, 06:38:53 AM »
Quote
Also, Minions don't die when hit.  They have 1 HP.  As such, Temp HP works normally.

Does this not seem fundamentally at odds with the rationale behind giving them 1hp in the first place?

The idea is that they do not actually have only 1hp, but that they are effectively treated as only having just 1 hp for all intents when interacting with the PCs. For example, they will likely have much more if they were say, raiding a village or engaging in some other activity which did not involve the PCs. Else, the horde of legion devils could easily have been repelled just by scattering caltrops on the floor or anything else which deals 1 damage.

Likewise, page55 of the DMG does state that a minion is destroyed when it takes any amount of damage.

Quote
A3 Temp HP interacts with minions as normal, so you can make your minions last a little longer.  This was mentioned in the "Minions" excerpt.

Where exactly? I can't seem it locate anything of the sort... :confused
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Gojirazard

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2008, 07:16:46 AM »
Fighter paragon class Swordmaster's 11th level ability steel grace says, at least in my copy, that I can use reaping strike or containing strike in place of my basic melee attack when charging with sword.

I can't seem to locate Containing Strike. Can anyone else?

AlienFromBeyond

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2008, 07:25:52 AM »
Fighter paragon class Swordmaster's 11th level ability steel grace says, at least in my copy, that I can use reaping strike or containing strike in place of my basic melee attack when charging with sword.

I can't seem to locate Containing Strike. Can anyone else?
Nope, because it's not in the book anywhere. Nice job eh? Kind of glad I got the pdf, makes me want to wait for the 2nd printing when they fix all this.

Runestar

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2008, 09:15:55 AM »
A5) Compare the skill training feat with the multiclass feats. Skill training lets me be trained in a skill, depending on which class I opt to multiclass in. The multiclass feats allow me the same benefit, while adding in a secondary benefit as well (typically a 1/encounter ability).

The only difference is that skill training has no prerequisites, and that it can be taken multiple times. Assuming I have no intention of multiclassing, taking the multiclass feat to obtain the appropriate class skill seems strictly superior to taking skill training.

For instance, instead of my fighter taking skill training: thievery, I could have him take "sneak of shadows", gaining both thievery as a class skill and the ability to sneak attack 1/encounter.

Deliberate or oversight? :)
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AlienFromBeyond

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2008, 09:20:53 AM »
Partially deliberate I think. If you want Thievery, chances are you want your character to be a little Rogue-y and have the Dex to get the multiclass feat, so BAM, two-for-one. On the other hand, what if you want a different multiclass feat because of a paragon path? Suddenly, choices!

Llochlyn

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2008, 02:23:34 PM »
Q7 When you select a skill to be trained in, you gain a permanent +5 bonus to that skill. You can’t gain training in a skill more than once.

Also, the rogue is automatically trained in Stealth and Thivery + 4 other skills from a set including... stealth an thievery. 

So, wtf ?

X-Codes

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2008, 11:35:15 PM »
Q7 When you select a skill to be trained in, you gain a permanent +5 bonus to that skill. You can’t gain training in a skill more than once.

Also, the rogue is automatically trained in Stealth and Thivery + 4 other skills from a set including... stealth an thievery. 

So, wtf ?
A7) That's the Rogue's class skill list.  If they're trained in Thievery and Stealth but those weren't class skills then thats also a big wtf, and if something else was to reference the Rogue's class skill list then you'd run into even more serious problems.

In other words, they're listed for completeness, not for double-training.

Mister D

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2008, 12:11:48 AM »
Do I get it right that close bursts attacks don't provoke attacks of opportunity? Thunderwave!!

Momar

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2008, 08:41:29 AM »
2) Cleave - can I target the same foe twice, for weapon+2str damage? Does this then not make reaping strike useless?

I don't see anything preventing this at present, though it does seem a good target for errata. Note that reaping strike isn't made entirely useless, as it does some damage on a miss, while cleave would be only hurting on a hit.

brislove

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2008, 08:27:47 PM »
Do I get it right that close bursts attacks don't provoke attacks of opportunity? Thunderwave!!

Close attacks do not provoke opportunity attacks. however thunder wave is a blast not a burst :-p

Momar

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2008, 08:30:12 PM »
3) How does temp hp interact with minions? No effect, since they automatically die when hit anyways?

Aside from the DMG the MM also states that minions die when they take any amount of damage (check the glossary), so temporary hp won't help.

Ieniemienie

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2008, 08:42:27 PM »
Q8 Where is the starting gold listed? can't find it anywhere...
Q9 Where did the Ride skill go?
'DnD is not a game; it is a membership in a tribe that I joined long ago.'

Stupidity should be painful!

Mister D

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2008, 08:44:02 PM »
Do I get it right that close bursts attacks don't provoke attacks of opportunity? Thunderwave!!

Close attacks do not provoke opportunity attacks. however thunder wave is a blast not a burst :-p




OOOOOOps... well, that's what I meant  :D

Momar

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2008, 08:52:42 PM »
A8: Starting gold is 100 gp. It's on page 18, under Skills, Feats, Powers, and Equipment.

highbulp

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Re: Ask a simple question...4e style
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2008, 09:13:55 PM »
Q9 Where did the Ride skill go?

A9 Rules for Mounts are in the DMG. There is no Ride skill--Nature includes training an animal, and Acrobatics/Athletics would probably include any neat tricks you wanted to do while mounted.