Author Topic: Duskblade mid-level optimizing  (Read 3838 times)

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Daytranno

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Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« on: June 19, 2009, 06:24:33 AM »
ey all,

I got some help from the folks here on beginning my Duskblade and it has been great so far.  I am 10th level at this point and I am looking over my character looking to optimize a few things.

I am human, so I have an extra feat avaiable which is nice.  My DM allows us to re-train etc for a price.  All of us agreed we would not do the Improved Trip/Reach tricks as we felt that could get misused.

My feats currently are:
Power Attack
Knowledge Devotion
Combat Casting (Bonus feat)
Obtain Familiar
Leap Attack
Arcane Strike


My DM has agreed that the feat Extra Spell would allow me to learn a spell off of my list, however we have banned Wraithstrike for obvious reasons.  I want to drop my familiar as well as the penalty is just too severe in our campaign currently if the familiar dies and I am simply not using it very well, it's almost wasted at this point.

I think currently that Arcane Strike may be wasted as I have only 3rd level spells and don't want to waste them fueling Arcane Strike.  I prefer to save the ones I have for Vampiric Touch and Dispelling Touch.  I might be able to use Arcane Strike for second level spells but again I prefer Scorching Ray or Dimension Hop.  I think Arcane Strike may be better served as my 12th or 15th level feat.

This essnetially leaves me with two feats available if I retrain.  What would you suggest as possible additions to what I already have in place?  Would a metamagic feat of Empower Spell make any sense at this point in order to use with a True Strike, Power Attack, Leap Attack Channelled Shocking Grasp combo?  Any other suggestions?

As for the Extra Spell... what would you suggest?  Wraithstrike is out, and most likely shivering touch is out.  But realistically I could choose almost any spell at this point up to 3rd level.  Maybe there is a 5th level "must have" spell and I should save that feat for later? 

Also, I have a 15 Wisdom so I can take the Feat Arcane Disciple, however I can't really find any great domain at this point, seeing as I would max out at 5th level available.  Any suggestions here?

I am trying to maximize my effectiveness in Melee Burst Damage with a little bit of seasoning thrown in.


Thanks for all the help to an old newbie.

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2009, 06:45:02 AM »
Mmh, Alter Self and Polymorph are great spells for Melee types, so maybe pick up Alter Self with Extra Spell now, and Polymorph in a couple of levels?

Depends on your groups stance on the Polymorph series of spells ofcourse :)

If it's okay'd and you want some extra cheese, you could pick up Otherworldy, Outsider forms have some tasty options available.

You can get both of those spells with the Transformation domain, but that requires you to have the shapechanger subtype. While doable for a human, it requires investing in some planar travel.


EDIT: I'd avoid Metamagic with a Duskblade, it takes up too many spell levels for too little benefit in my personal experience.
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Risada

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2009, 08:50:02 AM »
I think currently that Arcane Strike may be wasted as I have only 3rd level spells and don't want to waste them fueling Arcane Strike.  I prefer to save the ones I have for Vampiric Touch and Dispelling Touch.  I might be able to use Arcane Strike for second level spells but again I prefer Scorching Ray or Dimension Hop.  I think Arcane Strike may be better served as my 12th or 15th level feat.

Even a +1 to hit/+1d4 dmg is a good addition. You can get better options if you have a Ring of Wizardry and double your slots...

Eldariel

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2009, 09:45:12 AM »
For Arcane Disciple, I'd suggest looking at Strength-domain; Magic Vestment, Enlarge Person, Righteous Might, Spell Immunity and only one dead slot (Bull's Strength; most likely redundant) could be useful. Mysticism [SC] is also decent with Divine Favor, Weapon of the Deity, Righteous Might and hell, even Spiritual Weapon and Lesser Visage of the Deity can be useful. Wrath is also an excellent option, if only for Rhino's Rush (+ Leap Attack PA for full for great justice! Also, swift action to cast)

Hallack

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2009, 11:22:02 AM »
What kind of extra spell flavor are you seeking.  You could even get cure spells though I am not advocating that.

How about nice melee buff like Bite of _______ spell?  There are tons of awesome options with the flexibility your DM is allowing. 

You just have to decide what you would like to be able to accomplish within your character concept and playstyle.
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woodenbandman

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2009, 12:52:20 PM »
Shivering Touch? Bestow Curse is a great 4th level spell to channel through a touch.

Emy

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2009, 03:28:24 PM »
I think currently that Arcane Strike may be wasted as I have only 3rd level spells and don't want to waste them fueling Arcane Strike.  I prefer to save the ones I have for Vampiric Touch and Dispelling Touch.  I might be able to use Arcane Strike for second level spells but again I prefer Scorching Ray or Dimension Hop.  I think Arcane Strike may be better served as my 12th or 15th level feat.

Even a +1 to hit/+1d4 dmg is a good addition. You can get better options if you have a Ring of Wizardry and double your slots...

A Duskblade has 10 first level spells per day at level 20.

Even then:

Ring of Wizardry: 10 more first level spells, 20,000gp.
10x Memento Magica level one: 10 more first level spells, 15,000gp.

At lower levels, it takes fewer Memento Magica to catch up to a ring of wizardry, and they also don't take up a ring slot. The only advantage the Ring has is that you can use all of your level 1 spells in one combat if desired.

Daytranno

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2009, 07:06:05 PM »
I will look in to the ring.  Also, shivering touch is to over powered so I don't think we can use that.

I am looking for possible touch spells to be delivered through my strikes or maybe some kind of ranged attack spell that is decent.  I am mainly a damage dealer and I'm not over worried about defense.  I will look in to the wrath domain.  I am mainly looking to front end damage and disable my enemy quickly as my hps are not so great and my armor class is so-so.

ninjarabbit

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2009, 07:46:48 PM »
Improved initative is always a solid choice. You can also go improved bullrush/shock trooper. Arcane strike is very much worth it for a duskblade so don't retrain it, it stacks with pretty much eveything else you can do. Avoid metamagic feats since it takes a full round for a spontaneous caster to use it, meaning you can't channel a metamagiced spell into an attack.

Shield is a solid spell choice for extra spell if you plan on going into abjurant champion after level 13. A few other non-broken spells to consider are enlarge person, haste, nerveskitter, and greater mirror image if you're willing to wait until later.

Daytranno

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2009, 02:15:25 AM »
I've thought seriously about haste but I think I can get that from an item, so wasting a feat on it doesn't seem warranted in this case.  Nerveskitter seems kind of cool at a +5 for initiative checks and it's party wide, that's neat.  When mixed with improved initiative it seems really awesome.

I am not planning on going in to Abjurant Champion at all, I will stick with Duskblade for the full 20 levels.  I was kind of hoping for a good touch spell but it seems like good ones are broken or the ones I already get seem better.  I thought Whirling Blade might fun.

Eldariel

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2009, 05:20:25 PM »
Actually, you might want to look into Battle Jump [Unapproachable East]; it effectively allows you to Charge while Arcane Channeling, 'cause it allows you to treat attacks done after a Jump (that you can do as a part of a move) as charges, meaning the Standard Action attacks can also be Charges.

Shadowhunter

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2009, 09:37:35 PM »
Well it's probably a moot point seeing your Feat choices, but I've always liked the idea of a Duskblade/Swiftblade if you can pick spells outside your list and thus get Haste. Eventually two standard actions will mean twice the amount of channeling in a turn, not to mention the defense and mobility enhancers. :evillaugh
Ofc, your build isn't suited for that. Nor do you wish to go outside Duskblade.
Seems as if my Swiftblade fanboyism is going rampart here.
Hrrm, so what about actually saying something useful...

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I'll just do a +1 on Eldariels suggestion, Strength Domain. It really is quite good for what you're trying to do.
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Daytranno

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2009, 04:51:42 AM »
I am not sure that Battle Jump would work as it seems really situational.  Being that you have to hurl yourself down on your opponent it would be great if I had the surprise and time to set up, but I'm not sure how often that would be effective.

The strength domain looks promising, a lot of good buffs in there.  Also the heal domain doesn't look half bad with the ability to heal myself, but I can get items/potions to do that, so the stength domain looks like it has more utility.

Still not sure what feats to finish up with. 

Eldariel

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2009, 08:44:17 AM »
I am not sure that Battle Jump would work as it seems really situational.  Being that you have to hurl yourself down on your opponent it would be great if I had the surprise and time to set up, but I'm not sure how often that would be effective.

You don't need to Jump from a ledge, you just need to make the Jump-check to get over their heads. Trivial for Medium opponents, easily doable for Larges, it becomes a relevant issue with Huges and largers (but even then, few speed increases is all you need). Also works to apply 2xStr to your Leap Attack Charges.

Daytranno

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2009, 05:31:33 AM »
Thanks, I'll look more in to Battle Jump.  I thought that having to "hurl" yourself down on to an opponent precluding just a normal jump.


Can anyone suggest a really good 4th level or lower touch spell to be channel?  I was looking at Night's Caress but it's 5th level so the Extra Spell feat won't work as that requires you to take a spell one level lower than your maximum (which for Duskblades is 5th).


Daytranno

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2009, 05:57:20 AM »
Looking at Battle Jump I don't think it's possible.  The feat says:

"You can execute a charge by simply dropping from a height of at least 5 feet above your opponent. For example, a ledge 10 feet above the floor of a cavern would suffice for jumping on a Medium-sized creature, while a ledge 15 feet high is required for a jumping on a Large creature. "


So that would be a high jump with a vertical of 10 feet which would require a DC of 40 (essentially impossible).  Please some one tell me I'm wrong because I'd love to use it, and i find it hard to believe the feat was meant to be that situational but it seems it is. 

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2009, 07:25:51 AM »
Item Familiar feat, speed boosting item(s), +5 item, masterwork item and a good strength score will get you pretty far.
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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2009, 04:18:08 PM »
If you're really worried, a wand of Guidance of the Avatar is good for +20 once. DC 40 isn't that tough at all, on these boards.

ninjarabbit

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2009, 06:44:48 PM »
Yeah a 40 DC isn't that hard by level 10

- 13 ranks in jump, +13 bonus
- At least a 20 str, +5 bonus
- Masterwork item, +2 bonus
- Item familiar, +x bonus
- 5 ranks in tumble, +2 synergy bonus
- Ring of jumping or improved jumping or boots of striding and springing, +5 or +10 competence bonus
- Luckstone, +1 luck bonus


And that's only core/SRD

Eldariel

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Re: Duskblade mid-level optimizing
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2009, 06:25:37 AM »
As stated, Jump is trivially easy, simply because of the way speed works. Get Boots of Speed; +30' movement speed, which allows Jump at +12. This puts you at:
13 ranks
5-6 Str
12 speed
2 tumble

So without actually buying anything specifically for it, we get +32-33. Then add some +5-+10 competence item to Jumping (Greater Ring of Jumping :P) and you'll be doing DC 50s-60s on average. Jump is the easiest skill in the game to boost thanks to the speed bonuses applying, and it being Str-based (Strength is the easiest stat in the game to boost); no problem making some inhumane DCs there.