Author Topic: 4e Testing  (Read 5094 times)

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Runestar

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2008, 06:44:54 AM »
If we have the standard 5 person team that 4e suggests then that would mean there's 8 classes that can fill 5 slots.
I keep seeing people say this, but where is it stated that 4e suggests a party of 5?

More like 4-6, and it just got averaged to 5 somewhere along the line...
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X-Codes

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2008, 07:57:25 AM »
You know, this is turning into a headache.  Maybe we should just roll up some parties, throw them through some encounters, and see how it all comes out?  After we see what happens, we can just write something down detailing our experience and draw conclusions based on that.

I know it's not very scientific, but frankly I don't feel like doing a scientific study of D&D game balance and uberness.

AlienFromBeyond

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2008, 08:05:20 AM »
You know, this is turning into a headache.  Maybe we should just roll up some parties, throw them through some encounters, and see how it all comes out?  After we see what happens, we can just write something down detailing our experience and draw conclusions based on that.

I know it's not very scientific, but frankly I don't feel like doing a scientific study of D&D game balance and uberness.
I don't think you could really do a scientific study of D&D anyways.

I really just want to try it out as a hole, the DM of the campaign I was in has finals coming up and then will be a week away. I NEED MY FIX MAAAAAAN.

Bill Bisco: Eloquent Elf

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2008, 02:33:39 PM »
You know, this is turning into a headache.  Maybe we should just roll up some parties, throw them through some encounters, and see how it all comes out?  After we see what happens, we can just write something down detailing our experience and draw conclusions based on that.

I know it's not very scientific, but frankly I don't feel like doing a scientific study of D&D game balance and uberness.

Don't despair yet, I think we've made a lot of progress in our discussion.  Now, we just need to decide on

1. the # of characters in a party to test
2. the 3 monster encounters (for level 1)
3. the standard game map to conduct the test in
4. the starting positions on the board for the characters and monsters

AlterFrom

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2008, 04:03:49 PM »
Since the assumption made by the designers was 5 characters, that's probably what we should test.

For encounters, maybe:

Brutes+Artillery
  • Guard Drake
  • Guard Drake
  • Spitting Drake

Minions+Lurkers
  • Goblin Cutter[x4]
  • Goblin Cutter[x4]
  • Goblin Blackblade
  • Goblin Blackblade

Soldiers+Artillery+Skirmisher
  • Stormclaw Scorpion
  • Stormclaw Scorpion
  • Halfling Slinger
  • Goblin Warrior

No ideas at the moment for the battle map; I might mock one up later.

For starting, when my group did quick PvPs, we decided it via initiative. Everyone picks their position(s) on the board in order, going from lowest initiative rolled to highest rolled. You then proceed as normal.
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Bill Bisco: Eloquent Elf

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2008, 07:12:09 PM »
The map tools site has some maps in a gallery online http://gallery.rptools.net/v/maps/  there's this map from wizards

We could also do a 20x20 map with some terrain or something.

5 character standard is 500 xp.  So we'll need to adjust the monsters you posted.

Perhaps

Artillery+Soldiers
    * Hobgoblin Archer [x2]
    * Stormclaw Scorpion [x2]

Minions+Lurkers
    * Goblin Cutter[x4]
    * Goblin Cutter[x4]
    * Goblin Blackblade [x3]

Leader+Brute+Skirmisher
    * Gnome Arcanist
    * Guard Drake [x2]
    * Spiretop Drake

AlterFrom

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2008, 07:20:13 PM »
Good point.

*needs to start thinking in fives not fours*
Siggy
[spoiler]TIRED OF TRYING TO MANAGE FILES ACROSS SEVERAL COMPUTERS? GET DROPBOX AND SIMPLIFY THE PROCESS!


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Quote
We're ALL rules lawyers here. The BEST at what we do, too. It's like a Tom Grisham novel in which everybody at the top law firm is a dirty crook, but they all know the rules so well that TECHNICALLY speaking, they aren't breaking them...:eh

[/spoiler]

DaveTheMagicWeasel

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2008, 07:22:45 PM »
I think the obvious way to design the monsters would be using the "encounter templates" on p. 58 of the DMG.  Maybe a standard encounter of each type against a single party?  Or an easy,standard and hard for each type?

Bill Bisco: Eloquent Elf

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2008, 07:42:55 PM »
What's annoying about those encounter templates is that each one of the standard battles is above the xp budget for a player encounter.   :ahem

With my examples I was trying to optimize monster tactics and synergy.  It's only fair right?  :smirk

ImperiousLeader

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2008, 11:10:14 PM »
You know, this is turning into a headache.  Maybe we should just roll up some parties, throw them through some encounters, and see how it all comes out?  After we see what happens, we can just write something down detailing our experience and draw conclusions based on that.

I know it's not very scientific, but frankly I don't feel like doing a scientific study of D&D game balance and uberness.

I had a little too much time on my hands this week, and I did this. I generated a party of 5 8th level PCs. I've 6 encounters planned for them, already ran one. I'll post results soon.

Runestar

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2008, 06:19:02 AM »
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=229169

Enworld takes on the tarrasque. In summary, combat took 7 rounds. The party managed to stun-lock it, so the Big T never got to make a single attack, so it was just a tedious process of slowly but surely whittling away its obscene amount of hp. In fact, the damage taken by the party was due to them fueling the bloodmage's bolstering blood ability.

Thoughts? Seems like the more editions change, the more some creatures remain the same... :lol
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AlterFrom

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2008, 06:44:40 AM »
Some of the posters hit on the big thing about the encounter already. The group of L30 PCs faced what should be an encounter that offers just enough challenge to warrant using a daily or two and maybe an AP. Instead, they went all-out (more or less) blowing their dailies, action points, and special abilities left and right. Although, the Tarrasque did roll poorly.  :rolleyes
Siggy
[spoiler]TIRED OF TRYING TO MANAGE FILES ACROSS SEVERAL COMPUTERS? GET DROPBOX AND SIMPLIFY THE PROCESS!


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FYI: I lose a couple years off my life anytime I see I have a PM.

Quote
We're ALL rules lawyers here. The BEST at what we do, too. It's like a Tom Grisham novel in which everybody at the top law firm is a dirty crook, but they all know the rules so well that TECHNICALLY speaking, they aren't breaking them...:eh

[/spoiler]

heffroncm

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2008, 01:18:19 PM »
I'd enjoy seeing the same group do it with L25 PC's.  Or as the 4th encounter of the day.  Or take on Orcus right afterward.  Anything that makes it less of a nova'able standard encounter, which is all they fought.

Momar

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Re: 4e Testing
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2008, 01:04:24 AM »
I'd like to see a fight with an elder red. Less HP, Fort, and no resist all 10, but better AC, Will, and Ref. I also feel that the red's abilities are more diverse.