Author Topic: Setting Standards while Desperate  (Read 5348 times)

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yellerSumner

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Setting Standards while Desperate
« on: May 30, 2008, 08:08:42 AM »
I don't have a group in my area and the past few months I've been itching to play some D&D. 

Last week I visited a friend, took my books, and at midnight we decide to put down our Wiimotes and roll up some characters.  Another friend's little brother volunteers to DM for his first time.  I don't exactly think he was throwing "balanced encounters" at us, but hey, just getting to roll some dice was nice, and being drunk while doing it didn't hurt either.

Having that taste only seemed to inflame my desire.


Anyway, a guy on a message board I go to said he might run a game and was wondering what people might want to play.  I was interested in hearing if he had any house rules (for obvious reasons).  Anyway, the conversation went like this... (Names replaced because I'm big on protecting identities for some reason.)


[spoiler]<yeller> Well, Asshat, do you have any houserules you tend to use?
<Asshat> I tend to not use the massive damage thing...
<Asshat> But other then that
<Asshat> No.
<Asshat> I just have a Very creative style of Dm'ing..
<yeller> Hmm...
<Asshat> And i love
<yeller> Define "creative"
<Asshat> throwing at shit at people
<Asshat> tha make them go
<Asshat> " WAIT NO~! "
<Asshat> Like
<Asshat> Epic peasents.
<yeller> At what level for the players?
<Asshat> 1
<Asshat> This is fun
<Asshat> for my first game with new players
<Asshat> I always do this
<Asshat> I put a few peasents in a trading situation
<Asshat> with something rare
<Asshat> just baiting my players into attacking
<Asshat> then right out of no where
<Asshat> all the enemies pull out +5 vorpal katana's
<yeller> ...
<Asshat> its so evil
<Asshat> and I love having this mass of rule books ive collected with interweb resources
<Asshat> Lets me pick out more and more new things and idea's
<yeller> If the players win, do they get to keep the +5 vorpal katana(s)?
<Asshat> ... Players... win?
<Asshat> that sentance confuses me.
<Asshat> No.
<Asshat> They usually get the shit kicked out of
<Asshat> and they run off in a clever way that saves there ass.
<Asshat> But
<yeller> But if they survived?
<Asshat> Yeah
<Asshat> they usually survive cause they get smart
<Asshat> but its not a victory.
<Asshat> Not for that encounter.
[/spoiler]

Okay, so picking "Asshat" as his replacement name is probably a giant red flag I should be able to see.... 

Part of me is all Break his game! but I don't have the skills and experience for that. 

Could someone just smack me upside the head and tell me I deserve better?






So, due to this lack of DMs, I'm getting tempted to try my hand at DMing again.  I'm not particularly confident about doing it though.

When I've tried DMing before, I didn't end up having any fun.  Looking back, I'd been handed the DM duties shortly after all the PCs had been knocked out and thrown in a dungeon and the previous DM had absolutely no notes to give me about the place since he'd been BSing it.

Should knowing I'm not the world's best DM and wanting to improve and run a game I'd like to play in as a player be enough to give it a try?  As opposed to, say, trying to compare myself with amazing DMs who've been running games longer than I've been alive.

Any advice on how to grow the balls to DM is welcome.  As is any advice on how to avoid playing in a game I'll probably end up hating (both recognizing and politely (or not) saying no).
And if I'm like rambling or off-topic or in the wrong section or whatever, I'm using that it's 5 am as an excuse.

chibishuffle

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2008, 09:08:24 AM »
play a druid and if the DM becomes to much simply leave.  Seriously play a druid  :love
There is a difference between being uninformed and being stupid.  When presented with conflicting information the uninformed man admits he's wrong and takes it in stride he may even be happy to find the truth.  The stupid man will rant and rave despite the fact he is obviously wrong.  Dont be stupid

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2008, 10:00:38 AM »
...Dude. Just make a character who can make a DC 25 Knowledge: Religion checks. Own his epic peasants as a free action and completely annihilate the campaign.

Then you look the DM in the eye and say.

"I can be a bigger asshat than you can ever be. I advise trying again - this time without the bullshit."

If he doesn't seem to get it shoot him with a hammergun, set him back in the DM chair, and repeat. :flame
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[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

LogicNinja

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2008, 10:19:31 AM »
Any DM who is willing to go "these guys are level 40 commoners with vorpal swords" is not going to care what you do and is going to DM-fiat whatever he wants. Trying to pull dirty tricks is pointless.

Sunic_Flames

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2008, 10:44:00 AM »
Any DM who is willing to go "these guys are level 40 commoners with vorpal swords" is not going to care what you do and is going to DM-fiat whatever he wants. Trying to pull dirty tricks is pointless.

Yes, and the fact he is going to screw you over regardless means you might as well make as big of a joke of him as is possible.
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There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

IP proofing and avoiding being CAPed OR - how to make characters relevant in the long term.

Friends don't let friends be Short Bus Hobos.

[spoiler]
Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
[/spoiler]

RobbyPants

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2008, 12:06:15 PM »
Any DM who is willing to go "these guys are level 40 commoners with vorpal swords" is not going to care what you do and is going to DM-fiat whatever he wants. Trying to pull dirty tricks is pointless.
I have to agree.  I see two options:

  • Play along and take what you can in stride.  Try not to piss of the DM, as you don't want him focusing his attention (read: level 40 commoners with epic weapons) on you.  You'll probably be disapointed often, so try not to set your standards too high.
  • Don't join the game (or leave if you already have).
Edit:
I suppose there is a third option: start your own game and recuit his players.
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[/spoiler]

yellerSumner

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2008, 02:57:56 PM »
Well, there's no game as of yet, so I really don't know how many potential players there are to steal away from him.  All I know is I'm not going to submit myself to a solo campaign with him.


I'm considering trying to run a 4e game after I get done reading the books if I like what I see.  In part, it would be to try out the new system.  In part, it would be just to piss this guy off because of his irrational rage against 4e. 
While people here can use reason and coherent thought processes to determine what they do and don't like about 4e and explain how it does not fit their play style or whatnot, his argument is pretty much "It just sucks" and he's threatened that anyone playing 4e "Will be stabbed by Knife, Fork, wii mote. In my hand".



...Though, chibishuffle's idea is tempting, if only because he has a Wormmon avatar. *fangirlsqueal*

Jaimas

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2008, 04:44:30 PM »
Probably chickened out, yeller. Gave him too much food for thought with suggesting that - god forbid, the PCs win that one.   ::)

If he ever is stupid enough to run it, pull out all stops and come up with a campaign-raping PC that cannot be stopped. You know you want to.... Make it so!  :pout
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yellerSumner

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2008, 07:02:08 PM »
It's true.  I would like to do it. 

However, I doubt my skills are up to the challenge.
The short dungeon crawl last week was the most I've played in the last four years.  I haven't browsed the CO boards anywhere near enough to pick up on much of it.  If I was to build a character to break the game, I'd probably need to be walked through it with lots of hand-holding - even with a build that already exists.


I'm trying to decide if I politely decline, point out that he's an asshat and decline, or if I try to find out some more information to see if I should bother with breaking his game and what the best way to go about it would be. 
I mean, if he's throwing out epic peasants with epic weapons at 1st level characters, I can't help but ask if anyone actually stuck around long enough to play to 2nd level.

AfterCrescent

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2008, 09:22:32 PM »
Warning: Solely my opinion, not based on facts.

It seems he enjoys doing that and may even havethe whole "me v them" mentality going on.  Someone, maybe you, should sit him down and explain how that may be fun for him, but sure as shit isn't fun for someone else. He needs to learn to throw reasonable encounters at the party. Challenge them, not decimate them. It's a game that's meant to be fun for the whole party, not just him.

If he can't get that, it's not even worth playing with him, honestly.  It's a very simple concept that many people just don't get. Because one person runs the campaign doesn't mean that he's a deity or better than someone else. In fact, that's the opposite. He doesn't have a game without the players. It needs to be the GMs goal to make the game fun for his players while still having fun for himself. If that's not possible, he shouldn't try.
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Talisman

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2008, 10:59:13 PM »
Part of me is all Break his game! but I don't have the skills and experience for that. 

Could someone just smack me upside the head and tell me I deserve better?

I don't know you. I don't know anything at all about you. You could be a mass murderer for all I know.

That being said...

*smack* You deserve better. What you describe isn't D&D or any other kind of RPG. It's "The Abusive Storyteller's Happy Funtime Story Hour!"

No D&D > bad D&D. This guy sounds like a petty tyrant who will kick the s**t out of the rules to ensure that he "wins." Don't try to "break his game," he will only upgrade to 60th-level paladin/assassins armed with +20 katanas of I-win-because-I-say-so.

There is no character build that can withstand the Pissed-Off GM (CR infinite).

Quote
Should knowing I'm not the world's best DM and wanting to improve and run a game I'd like to play in as a player be enough to give it a try?  As opposed to, say, trying to compare myself with amazing DMs who've been running games longer than I've been alive.

Any advice on how to grow the balls to DM is welcome.  As is any advice on how to avoid playing in a game I'll probably end up hating (both recognizing and politely (or not) saying no).

No one is ever great as a GM their first time out...Lord knows I wasn't. But my advice is to take the plunge. Come up with the bare bones of a campaign that interests you (but doesn't railroad the PCs). Be open and upfront about your lack of experience as a GM; accept legitimate criticism gracefully and you will improve. The best single piece of advice I can give you is: be firm but flexible. One the one hand, accept that the players will do crazy stuff that screws up your carefully-laid plans; roll with it and move on. On the other hand, you hae to be the Game Master. Once you've made a ruling, it stands until the end of the session (when it can be discussed, if necessary, and maybe changed for future games). Don't let the players talk you into anything you're not comfortable with, but don't be a tyrant.

Regarding getting out of the game with your ol' buddy A. H., the nice way is to simply say "I can't make it for the foreseeable future," or "I'll let you know if I get enough free time." Slightly less nice, but more honest, is "Doesn't sound like my style of game." Then there's always "Strage as it may sound, I don't enjoy being placed in unwinnable and humiliating situations. I game to have fun, not to be bullied."
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yellerSumner

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 06:45:09 PM »
Being a mass murderer wouldn't necessarily make me a bad person, would it?



We PMed each other a couple of times, but when I was expecting a "gaming resume," he failed to present one.  So, I never got around to trying to explain the whole "hey, are you sure your players are having fun like that?" thing.

I've decided not to play with him in a game he runs.


While we've chatted since then, but it ended up being mostly about his nerdrage against 4e.  I think it's understood I don't plan to play if he runs a game.

Ieniemienie

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2008, 01:52:09 PM »
Why not just join a PbP game on this board? lots of people can help you play, and it will most certianly brush up your DnD-fu.
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Hinthas

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2008, 03:10:12 PM »
Warning: Solely my opinion, not based on facts.

It seems he enjoys doing that and may even havethe whole "me v them" mentality going on.  Someone, maybe you, should sit him down and explain how that may be fun for him, but sure as shit isn't fun for someone else. He needs to learn to throw reasonable encounters at the party. Challenge them, not decimate them. It's a game that's meant to be fun for the whole party, not just him.

If he can't get that, it's not even worth playing with him, honestly.  It's a very simple concept that many people just don't get. Because one person runs the campaign doesn't mean that he's a deity or better than someone else. In fact, that's the opposite. He doesn't have a game without the players. It needs to be the GMs goal to make the game fun for his players while still having fun for himself. If that's not possible, he shouldn't try.

I was going to say something but this is pretty much it. If the DM isn't going to take the game seriously, then stick that person in a corner and ONLY let the bastard play with sponges. I suppose the part where you Started at midnight and commenced to drinking could have a few things to do with it, but it sounded like that was a night better suited for playing a card game or something. Although, I've been in groups where the players were: drunk, stoned, whacked out on "bad candy", or coming off of some sort of bender and the players functioned reasonably well. I see the phrase AssHat thrown around and I would possibly address the maturity level of all parties involved to see if this might have had something to do with it.

Gaming is a dance. It takes constructive participation from all of its parts. Thats just my two cents, FWIW.
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yellerSumner

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2008, 05:33:40 PM »
Why not just join a PbP game on this board? lots of people can help you play, and it will most certianly brush up your DnD-fu.
To be completely honest?

I'm a bit intimidated.
Before I can brush up my DnD-fu, I'd have to develop it.  While a lot of the migrants are from the CO boards, I came from the d20 boards that evidently aren't good enough to keep.   :pout

Not that I think it would be a bad thing to develop, but I'm a bit too lazy to do so at the moment.


I see the phrase AssHat thrown around and I would possibly address the maturity level of all parties involved to see if this might have had something to do with it.
Uh.. Not so much thrown around but... deliberately placed...

Granted, I might have been able to come up with a name more mature than "Asshat", but... Meh.  It was about 5 AM and he's not exactly the type of person who provokes a mature response.

nemafow

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2008, 04:46:17 AM »
Glad to see you didn't go and play in his group. All you will have done is gotten upset over a poorly played game and obviously stroked his huge ego.

I've never played a PbP game before, but surely, you're among friends which is this community. Take a shot, you might have some fun, find one that has as much commitment that your willing to put forward, could be 10 minutes a day (kind of a round a day or so) or maybe an hour once a week, it really depends on the group.

It might not work out, but at least you've got a higher chance of having fun, instead of Asshats game.
It's still a game, don't be intimidated, once you've gotten into it you will have fun.

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2008, 12:24:36 PM »
Don't be intimidated by the PbP games!  They aren't all CharOp'ers-- go into the general thread and say you are looking specifically for a game that is D&D-rusty friendly or a d20 modern game and I'm sure something will come along.
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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2008, 06:57:20 AM »
Yeah, PbP games are a good way to get yourself into it, because you have more time to think, you can reference the rules at your own pace, and the time commitment is much smaller.
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AfterCrescent

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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2008, 07:00:37 AM »
Don't be intimidated by the PbP games!  They aren't all CharOp'ers-- go into the general thread and say you are looking specifically for a game that is D&D-rusty friendly or a d20 modern game and I'm sure something will come along.
I second this. (and am surprised I missed it when it was first posted... oops :blush) Even right now there's a lighthearted game mixing D&D and BESM starting up. Check it out.  Scope around, something you're up for may come up sooner than you expect. :D
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Re: Setting Standards while Desperate
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2008, 12:38:54 PM »
To be completely honest?

I'm a bit intimidated.
Before I can brush up my DnD-fu, I'd have to develop it.  While a lot of the migrants are from the CO boards, I came from the d20 boards that evidently aren't good enough to keep.   :pout

I wouldn't worry about it. Compared to a lot of people who play in them, my opt-fu is minimal. Hell, I've never even used Incarnum, Psionics, and I just dove into Tome of Battle yesterday. So I'm hardly up to the standards of optimization, but I'm in 2, possibly 3, games. Just read the handbooks, throw out all of those old perceptions that evocation was good, sword and board is awesome, etc.... and you'll do fine.