Ur-priest Nar-demonbinder caster level conundrum.

[Salt_Crow]

How would you calculate the caster level for, say X (non-spellcasting for simplicity's sake) 5/Ur-priest 4/Nar Demonbinder 1/Mystic Theurge 4?

So Nar Demonbinder calculates its CL by adding its level on top of any one spellcasting class (in this case, Ur-priest). Ur-priest, as we all know and love, add 1/2 caster level for all other spellcasting classes on top of its effective caster level.

Let's see: Effective Ur-priest level is 8 (Ur-priest 4 + MT 4) and ND 5 (ND 1 + MT 4).
However, as UP adds 1/2 ND level to its CL- UP's CL is 10 (8 + 1/2*5). On top of this, ND adds its Effective CL (5) making its CL 15.
This changes UP's caster level to 8 + 1/2*15 = 15, which then changes ND's CL to 20.
And that makes UP's CL 18... ND 23;
UP 19 ND 24;
and finally: UP 20 ND 25 (another calculation would give the same result)

Making... its Holy Word/Blasphemy/Whatnots impossible to resist by appropriately CR'd monsters.


So am I doing something wrong? Too caught up in RAW?

[woodenbandman]

Remember: "The interpretation of the rules that screws you over the most is probably the most correct."

[Havok4]

That is rather nasty if it does work that way. An additional bonus of that combination is that it is thematically consistent. The math does look like a pain but I cannot see any errors.

[dither]

I think it's probably unreasonable to add a bonus to CL from a single source more than once.

For instance:
Ur-Priest CL 8.5 = UP 4 + MT 4 + ND 1/2
Demonbinder CL 9 = ND 1 + MT 4 (+ UP 4, presumably)

edit: In this case, I would assume that it's not really the greatest idea to try and add the increase in CL from Mystic Theurge to each class more than once. Demonbinder adds only 1/2 to Ur-Priest, because you only have one level in it, right? And you choose to have your Demonbinders stack on Ur-Priest levels (it doesn't specifically state that it has to be added to an arcane class, near as I can tell), right?

[PhaedrusXY]

If you look closely, these things usually say they add to your class levels or just levels of another spellcasting class. That is not equal to your caster level for that class. So it is a lot less uber than it first looks. People have been talking about abusing this since Nar Demonbinder was published in the web preview to UE.

[Caelic]

Phaedrus is correct; Ur Priest, like most such classes, references class level--not caster level.  Very few classes reference caster level for such a calculation (Knight of the Weave and Apostle of Peace are two that do.)