Author Topic: Optimized good dragon help (Read 4142 times)

StPeteGamer · « **on:** May 21, 2009, 02:46:10 PM »

Alright I am having some difficulties with making encounters for my group I have about 2-4 optimized characters in a large group of 8 to 9 players. I am just looking for suggestions on how to equip/pimp out a good dragon to fight my evil party. The party is somewhere between 11-13th level my plan is to give them two mature or older dragons being backed up by some wyrmlings and juveniles and maybe a half dragon or two. Just wanted the boards expertise on ways they have pimped out dragons to make them bigger badder stronger. Thanks in advance.

woodenbandman · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2009, 02:48:06 PM »

Loredrakes are good. They get +2 casting levels in exchange for a d10, rather than a d12 (Whoo!) hitdie.

StPeteGamer · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2009, 03:00:10 PM »

The race is firmly set as silver unfortunatley although will use those later. Or is that a template?

Prime32 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2009, 03:02:55 PM »

Quote from: StPeteGamer on May 21, 2009, 03:00:10 PM

The race is firmly set as silver unfortunatley although will use those later. Or is that a template?

Template, or rather "archetype", from an Eberron book.

BowenSilverclaw · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2009, 03:07:29 PM »

Dragons or Eberron to be precise.

There are several more, but Loredrake (+2 Sorcerer level, change HD from d12 to d10) and Wyrm of War (swap spell slots (as in, spells per day, not spells known) for Tiger Claw maneuvers of equal level (see ToB for maneuvers etc.)) are my favorites.

StPeteGamer · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2009, 03:15:07 PM »

Well thanks for that i will look into that stuff for future use.
I was really looking for items or something that I can slap onto ones I have already thought any suggestions are welcome.

BowenSilverclaw · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2009, 03:23:19 PM »

Well, they do have that whole 'triple standard wealth' thing going for their treasure rating, so you can get a crapton of magic items.

I'll get back with some basic ideas later when I get back to my books/character concepts

AfterCrescent · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2009, 03:55:19 PM »

Mouthpick weapons are nice (Lords of Madness). Claw/Bite enhancing items/spells from Draconomnomnomicon are good, too.

BowenSilverclaw · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2009, 04:02:35 PM »

Quote from: AfterCrescent on May 21, 2009, 03:55:19 PM

Claw/Bite enhancing items/spells from Draconomnomnomicon are good, too.

Amulet of Mighty Fists (DMG) and Necklace of Natural Attacks (Savage Species) come to mind, as well as Claws of the Ripper (Draconomicon)

EDIT: the Wraithstrike spell (SC) is your friend ofcourse if you want to get really nasty with a melee dragon

Emy · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2009, 04:11:13 PM »

Here are a couple of spells dragons might find really handy, to cover some of their weaknessess:

Scintillating Scales (Spell Compendium, p181)
Dragons normally have terrible touch AC, and a ton of natural armor. This spell converts their natural armor to a deflection bonus.

Sheltered Vitality (Libris Mortis, p71)
Heh, Shivering Touch. More like Shivering can't touch this~

Consider runestaffs. Dragons have Sorcerer casting, which means they're limited by spells known. A runestaff with some long-duration buffs in it would be a good idea.

Quote from: AfterCrescent on May 21, 2009, 03:55:19 PM

Mouthpick weapons are nice (Lords of Madness). Claw/Bite enhancing items/spells from Draconomnomnomicon are good, too.

If you're considering improving their melee capabilities, here are the things that immediately come to mind: Rapidstrike, Improved Rapidstrike, Improved Natural Attack, Greater Mighty Wallop, a means of Pouncing, a Valorous Amulet of Natural Attacks

BowenSilverclaw · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2009, 04:16:54 PM »

Agreed with all of the above

Also, Wings of Cover (RotD)

Quote from: Emy on May 21, 2009, 04:11:13 PM

a means of Pouncing

Wyrm of War archetype lets you pick up Pouncing Charge. Old and older dragons can pick up the Dire Charge epic feat. Aside from that you could give them a level of Barbarian for the Lion Totem to exchange Fast Movement for Pounce...

Emy · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2009, 04:39:13 PM »

Oh hey, they're Good.

Perhaps one of the higher level ones could take Arcane Preparation and Craft Staff, and create runestaffs with sanctified spells in them. (Luminous Armor as a Mage Armor replacement, Celestial Aspect for the no-save unsummoning horn).

They also ignore material components, which could be handy for stuff like Identify, Create Magic Tattoo, Symbol of X and Ghoul Glyph (lair defense!), Minor Creation, FABRICATE

BowenSilverclaw · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2009, 04:44:48 PM »

Entangling Exhalation feat is another fun one for some basic battlefield control, possibly paired with Clinging Breath and Lingering Breath.

If the party know they'r up against a certain type of dragon, (a wand of) Breath Weapon Substitution might be nice for a surprise opener

StPeteGamer · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2009, 05:51:18 PM »

They do know what they are going up against where is said wand located, Breath Weapon Substitution?

Where Are runestaffs from?

What are mouthpick weapons? Just weapons that are in the mouth instead of wielded?

Will use both of those spells thanks for that.

BowenSilverclaw · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2009, 06:01:23 PM »

Breath Weapon Substitution is in Draconomicon, possibly in Spell Compendium as well.
Runestaffs are in the Magic Item Compendium.

Not sure about Mouthpick Weapons...

Entangling Exhalation is in Races of the Dragon and Clinging and Lingering Breath are in Draconomicon.

AfterCrescent · « **Reply #15 on:** May 21, 2009, 06:27:50 PM »

Mouthpick weapons, as I said, are from Lords of Madness.

It's a +1 enhancement ability that allows someone to replace a bite attack with a weapon, thus making it possible to take iterative attacks. So where a Huge dragon has one bite at 2d8, with a Mouthpick Greatsword, he can do 4d6 (huge greatsword damage) +1.5Str instead of just +Str. And, of course, since Huge dragons have 20+HD, usually, they get 4 attacks. That's the definition of sexy.

gagnrath · « **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:29:45 PM »

Also don't fight in enclosed areas. Oh and take one level of spell warped sniper and wings of flurry on a dragon or half dragon include split ray. Having dazed characters that can't take actions is awesome. A mage who has been swallowed whole and is in the dragons stomach after the first round isn't doing much casting.

Round 1 daze at least 1 and hopefully 2 casters with a split ray wings of flurry. Bite and grab one with your full on mature dragon. Breathe on them with one of the others. Hit the casters hard and first then any dedicated archers. Most mellee fighter types can't easily combat a flying dragon. Most wizards aren't making a concentration check inside a dragons stomach or mouth. Its clearly the best way to go. Have the half dragon ally snipe and daze a couple right off. Then get them held the next round. AFter that finish off the fighters by breething on them as you fly past.

Negative Zero · « **Reply #17 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:13:31 PM »

Spellwarp Sniper might not be the nicest thing to do. Rarely do players enjoy getting screwed out of their actions with no save.

woodenbandman · « **Reply #18 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:17:22 PM »

For some spells known I have a few:

Moon Bolt: Will save half, Xd4 strength damage.
Radiant Assault: will save or d6 rounds of daze, as well as CL(15 mad)d6 damage.

Those are both pretty high spell levels. Also, Bite of the XXX is indispensible, but that might be a bit much.

Emy · « **Reply #19 on:** May 22, 2009, 12:02:19 AM »

Quote from: BowenSilverclaw on May 21, 2009, 03:07:29 PM

Dragons or Eberron to be precise.

There are several more, but Loredrake (+2 Sorcerer level, change HD from d12 to d10) and Wyrm of War (swap spell slots (as in, spells per day, not spells known) for Tiger Claw maneuvers of equal level (see ToB for maneuvers etc.)) are my favorites.

Adding to this: note that Archetypes also make the dragon they're applied to lose their ability to cast Cleric spells as arcane spells, if they have any. They're still good.

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Author Topic: Optimized good dragon help (Read 4142 times)