Author Topic: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide  (Read 63073 times)

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Ithamar

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #100 on: March 05, 2010, 06:33:40 PM »
Hippo is in Sandstorm...  Not to mention the Dire Hippo!
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #101 on: March 05, 2010, 06:37:40 PM »
Hippo is in Sandstorm...  Not to mention the Dire Hippo!
domo arigato
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Prime32

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #102 on: March 05, 2010, 07:44:56 PM »
Just watch out for clerics of Tem-Et-Nu.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

archangel.arcanis

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #103 on: March 05, 2010, 07:57:11 PM »
Just watch out for clerics of Tem-Et-Nu.
Especially if they have the moon domain too.  :lol
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

BrokeAndDrive

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #104 on: March 26, 2010, 10:46:10 AM »
I now need to find a large-sized race that the players wont automatically kill on sight...
Might I suggest Living Maug?
Random quotes:[spoiler]I think Roy's coinages are shitty and dumb, but Failroy has to take the cake for the dumbest new compound word of the year
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That was kind of the point. I was trying to be a Roy parody, but I guess it didn't come across overly well.

==

JaronK is of course most famous for his massive thought experiments into placing classes into tiers. While a kind of nifty idea, and a decent enough way to think about stuff, his particular tier assignments were basically insane. Apparently the criteria he used was to assign classes relative strength based on what bullshit he personally would let them get away with at 20th level.

So Factotums were rated very highly, because apparently he would let them use Rokugan-exclusive skills with Forgotten Realms-exclusive weapons from the back of MM2 templated warbeasts. But Rogues suck donkey dick, becuase he wouldn't let them use Use Magic Device to read scrolls of Planar Binding. It was a very surreal argument.
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And to think the system was immortalized in OOTS. As a general rule, I try to avoid all tier discussion there because it's the De Facto system at BG, and I'm not going to change anyone's mind.

Besides, I think if most people are pressed, they will admit that it's just an estimate, anyway, and that results can vary from table to table.
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My only real complaint with the tier system is that at one point I was tired (tiered?) of hearing about it.[/spoiler]

Surreal

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #105 on: April 09, 2010, 02:36:41 AM »
Eneko from Secrets of Sarlona (p.109) are another LA+1 giant race. There's also the Primordial Giant template from Secrets of Xen'drik (p.79) which can be applied to the half-giant and eneko. I'm not sure how much that's useful for a lycanthrope, but it's an option nonetheless.

Also, dire animals have all good saves.  Considering this means a better Will save, it's something to consider.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 02:42:41 AM by Surreal »
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Nanshork

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #106 on: April 09, 2010, 04:23:07 AM »
Side note: I recently reminded myself that this guide exists (aka: earlier today).  I've made a note to work on it, will do some updating of things listed in the thread and then some digging to flesh out the third post soon I swear!
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Prime32

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #107 on: April 09, 2010, 09:35:25 AM »
How would the Otherworldly feat affect a natural lycanthrope? Would your Animal HD be converted to Outsider HD?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 09:36:58 AM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

altpersona

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #108 on: January 23, 2011, 08:15:51 PM »
Is it really legal to have swarm as base animal for lycanthrope? IIRC you do not gain any subtype of the animal you assume (except Aquatic subtype), which would make any swarm lycanthropes (thematic reasons aside) unviable to play if at all.

The exact text from the SRD of the template and it makes no mention of subtypes whatsoever, it just says that the type of the lycanthrope doesn't change.  So by RAW I see nothing illegal.

Alternate Form ability's text makes it clear that: "The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.". It seems to me that unfortunately (I do really like the idea of Swarm lycanthrope too...) you won't be gaining that Swarm subtype :(

Sad, ain't it?

lil necro here..

just rereading somethings..

i was very disappointed to see a good argument made against were-swarms.

so i kept looking...

quote the raven
Quote

Alternate FormA creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the creature:

The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.

 

three pieces here:

1. Were is a template, the first underlined bit is somewhat contradictory. apply template that grants alternate form, and you cannot use alternate form.

2. retain type and subtype. does gaining new subtypes effect your current type or subtype? no, not that i know of.

3. is were-octopus (PotC: Davey Jones?) a valid combo? yes, as far as i can tell. its an animal w/ a (probably) new subtype, a subtype that is specifically called out in the Alternate Form description.

either aquatic is special, or its a general example. i dont see anywhere that it says.

finding Animal type w/ subtypes other than aquatic is abit tricky. i see

Quote
Piranha Swarm, its aquatic and swarm.
Critic Lizard, its subtype Psionic
Razorwing, subtype Psionic
Pterrax, subtype Psionic
Cilops, subtype Psionic
add to that the plain ol swarm subtype creatures.

so is a were-razorwing not psionic? its a fundamental part of the base animal, such as water breathing is to fish.



the big problem i see is that you Specifically do not gain Special Qualities (without tricks), so no Swarm traits. that kills off most of the joy in being a Were-swarm. all thats left is gaining LA and neat party tricks.

by party tricks, i mean, Unbodied (incorporeal/psionic) Half-Troll (become a Giant, no size change listed in the crystal pdf) were rat swarm. +6 LA is gonna suck.
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Nanshork

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #109 on: January 23, 2011, 09:47:14 PM »
Extremely late response @ Prime: I would say that feat only affects Racial Hit Dice that don't come from the template, but it's an interesting question.  I don't think there's any official way to rule it one way or another.

@altpersona: If you can gain the swarm subtype without gaining swarm traits, that seems the like most useless use of the template ever.   :p  Interesting reasoning though.

Oh, and the alternate form ability allows you to turn into the animal that you are a "were" of.  This animal has no templates applied to it, the base creature is the one with the template applied to it.  There is no contradiction there.
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EjoThims

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #110 on: January 24, 2011, 12:52:55 PM »
Quote

Alternate FormThe creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.

 

either aquatic is special, or its a general example. i dont see anywhere that it says.

Aquatic is special. That's why it's specifically called out after the specific statement that the base creature retains his normal type/subtype; directly implying he gains no new types from the animal.

So no, were-psionic animals do not gain the psionic subtype.

altpersona

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #111 on: January 24, 2011, 02:24:14 PM »
that is an valid interpretation.

however, i think there is no clear 'implying' of anything, it could be implying that its specific, or it could be implying that subtypes transfer.

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EjoThims

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #112 on: January 24, 2011, 02:43:51 PM »
that is an valid interpretation.

however, i think there is no clear 'implying' of anything, it could be implying that its specific, or it could be implying that subtypes transfer.



Except that the well established norm is templates specifically calling out exactly which types/subtypes do transfer or change (in fact, it could be interpreted that SS 'Reading Templates' rules make it a requirement - anything not explicitly present uses the base creature), and this one calls out specifically only aquatic.

While it is possible it was intended to transfer other subtypes as well, that would require very poor writing (even by WotC standards) and breaking precedent, all without anything explicit. Assuming all that is quite unfounded.

altpersona

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide
« Reply #113 on: January 24, 2011, 02:52:03 PM »
well, yes, it is an ass u m(e) tion
The goal of power is power. - idk
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow

The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

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