Yay new forum!

[AlienFromBeyond]

So, who's ready to delve into the depths of 4th Edition? I have copies of the core books, so ask me anything.

[brislove]

I have a copy of the books as well.

the system is kinda weird for point buy, 16 is the stat that they want you to go for as far as I can tell.

You start with 5 10s and an 8. 8-13 costs 1 point. 14, 15, 16 cost 2 points, 17 costs 3, and 18 costs 4. You get 22 points.

Basically you pay the bonus you are getting with that point. Except at 16 where you just pay one less then the rest of their pricing scheme for no reason, making it apparent that they feel 16 is a good break point. you can go to 18, but it hurts.

Now I have a question for DMs out there. Would you stick with 22? or would you raise it a little (like everyone did in 3.5 from 25-28/32). I like 25 a lot, that has a fair amount of variance. you can have an 18, 16, 12. 18, 14, 12, 12. You basically can't get an 18 and make an effective character with 22, except a wizard, even then it's risky as you'll have at least 1 really weak defense (fort).

[heffroncm]

To be fair, the "22" in 4e is exactly the same number of points as starting with 32 points and 8s in everything.  An 18 cost 2 points more, a 14-17 costs 1 point more, anything up to 13 costs the same.  Stats will generally be stopping at 13 instead of 14 for MAD builds.  There are many more stat boosts for plain leveling though, so I wouldnt' monkey with the system.

[brislove]

it really depends on whether or not you like 18s. if you don't care about having an 18 it's fine, still a little limited, but fine.

[heffroncm]

It's all relative.  What's an 18?  In 4e, it's starting with a 16 and never assigning any level points to it.  If you start with an 18 in 3e and assign all your leveling points to it, you get a 23.  In 4e, start with a 16 and assign half your level points to it (the max you can assign to any one stat), you get a 24.  I'm satisfied with that end result.  I can't think of any instance where finishing with a 26 is more important to me than finishing with 2 24's.

[brislove]

it's a 26 and a 22 instead of 2 24's. mainly it only affects wizards. they are pretty much a 1 stat class, nothing else effects their attacks or damage, the implement usage is fine, but you can just take orb and always use the extend effect (which is certainly powerful).

I'll agree it's pretty balanced, I would just like to be able to get either an 18/14/12/12/10/8, or 16/16/14/12/10/8. with 22 you best option is probably 16/16/12/12/10/8 or, for single stat classes. 18/12/12/12/10/8 or 18/13/13/10/10/8, or 18/14/11/10/10/8.

I think that you still get significant trade-offs even with 3 more points, but you can have a more even stat-line for multi-classing options.

[heffroncm]

I actually think it's perfect.  In 3.x, with 32 points, I was always left wishing I had just 2 or 3 more points.  It looks like in 4e, with 22 points, I'll always be left wishing I had just 2 or 3 more points.  That, IMO, is a good thing ^.^

[ImperiousLeader]

There's a little MAD in all the classes, even the Wizard wants some other stats than INT. WIS is used on a few powers and feats, CON is still important, if not as important. Pushing for that starting 18 is tough.

[Josh]

Everybody wants at least three decent stats to line up with your defenses.  For those without the book your will, reflex and fort have two possible attributes.  As follows (correct me if I get this wrong)

Fort = Con or Str
Ref = Dex or Int
Will = Wis or Char

This sets up HAD (Half attribute dependency).  Part of doing a good build in 4e I think will revolve around choosing these stats well. 

I have a question for book owners:  What did Half-Elves and Eladrins end up with?  Pre-release materials are contradictory for Half elves and weak on eladrin.   

[heffroncm]

Eladrin are stuck with 2 dex 2 int.  They get low-light, longsword prof, an extra skill, +1 Will, +5 Save vs. Charm, Fey Step, Fey Origin, and Trance for 4 hours, and 2 Arcana, 2 history

Half Elves have 2 Con 2 Cha, low-light, an at-will from a class differant than their own as an encounter, eligible for Elf and Human feats, 2 diplomacy, 2 insight, and allies in 10 squares get +1 diplomacy.