Author Topic: Melee Clerics–Actually that good?  (Read 12167 times)

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Melee Clerics–Actually that good?
« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2009, 12:59:06 AM »
Quote
Right, there really only IS the longspear.... and true about the PA. However, the weapon and the shield should stay mundane until level 7 at least, when you might start power-attacking, and would want a two-handed weapon.

Well, at 1d6+1.5str mod (3 at 1st lv, unless you decide to go half-orc or something), it really isn't any better than 1d8+2 (though the reach is very nice in tandem with enlarge person). Same for the quarterstaff. Plus, 1d8 scales to 2d6 when enlarged, while 1d6 only improves to 1d8. And I can always wield my warhammer 2-handed if necessary (I doubt I will have the feats to spare for jovar prof anyways).

Unless you want cleave, I feel PA can definitely wait until mid lvs.

Reach + Steadfast Boots = kill chargers before they even hit you
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Akalsaris

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Re: Melee Clerics–Actually that good?
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2009, 03:31:36 AM »
Except when the chargers already have reach, and/or when you want some other awesome boots instead ;)


Achiever_Type

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Re: Melee Clerics–Actually that good?
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2009, 04:10:34 AM »
I played a cleric/ordained champion with 1 level of warblade mixed in through the Shackled City path.  Melee clerics are that good.  THey fight on part with Jade Pheonix mages, and Warblades.  But better yet, if you use your spells proactively, they buff the crap out of them while doing so.  The advent of ordained champion makes it so even withoug DMM Persist, you can effectively play a melee cleric. 

Brainpiercing

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Re: Melee Clerics–Actually that good?
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2009, 05:23:32 AM »
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Well, at 1d6+1.5str mod (3 at 1st lv, unless you decide to go half-orc or something), it really isn't any better than 1d8+2 (though the reach is very nice in tandem with enlarge person).
Huh? My Longspear(SRD) shows 1d8, and it should, for a two-handed weapon. But yes, using a one-handed weapon with two hands is also an option.

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Besides house rules, actual campaigns have a lot to do with how effective classes (including the cleric) can be. If you're dungeon crawling, it's easy to be very efficient about it. If you're constantly ambushed, it's much harder.
That is very true. DMs around me like to ambush people. No wait, one DM liked to ambush us, another makes us fail... make spot checks, as the DMG demands. Um.. yeah, we fail them. :( But the critters don't need to make spot checks,that's a little unfair I think. I let usually let both sides make spot checks.

I played a cleric/ordained champion with 1 level of warblade mixed in through the Shackled City path.  Melee clerics are that good.  THey fight on part with Jade Pheonix mages, and Warblades.  But better yet, if you use your spells proactively, they buff the crap out of them while doing so.  The advent of ordained champion makes it so even withoug DMM Persist, you can effectively play a melee cleric. 
I do want to repeat that I think this counts AFTER level 7, or after 4th level spells at least. And IMHO unless you have a very good plan the way to get there is a lot more stony.

I love DMM persist. With enough investment into the ability, you can make all your dreams come true with divine metamagic. I happen to like DMM chained spells, and Persisted Righteous Wrath of the Faithful. It's not really unbalanced as long as you don't abuse it, such as the Greater Consumptive Field.
Hey, I love it, too. My take is: If you don't have it, take Leadership :). Actually I like the GCF, too, it's like an Epic Str buff without the cost. BUT I find outside of epic it's just slightly skewed...
« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 05:32:12 AM by Brainpiercing »

Runestar

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Re: Melee Clerics–Actually that good?
« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2009, 07:55:25 AM »
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Huh? My Longspear(SRD) shows 1d8, and it should, for a two-handed weapon. But yes, using a one-handed weapon with two hands is also an option.

Silly me, mixing up the spear with a shortspear.  :p
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Melee Clerics–Actually that good?
« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2009, 01:28:18 PM »
Except when the chargers already have reach, and/or when you want some other awesome boots instead ;)


Steadfast boots are 1400 gp. You can easily afford to combine them with something else for +700 gp, if you can afford some other awesome boots at all (like Boots of Speed, I'd guess).

And the cleric in question specifically had the Strength domain for Enlarge Person. So he'd be a large guy, with a reach weapon, and steadfast boots. Yeah, the optimized BBEG charger might equal his reach, but tons of other guys won't, and many of them will die before they even get to attack him (1 double damage attack from the boots, then an AoO for having more reach). And technically from the description of the boots, you're always treated as having a readied action against a charge... even if you've already stabbed some guy in the face this round for charging you. So send in the horde of orcs. They'll all die. Those boots are incredibly good for the price.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 01:29:55 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Brainpiercing

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Re: Melee Clerics–Actually that good?
« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2009, 02:02:31 PM »
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Those boots are incredibly cheesy for the price.

Right, I still both used them and allow them. My DM in one campaign just doesn't let anyone charge me, and I'll probably do likewise, since charging is really not such a good tactic, if you don't outreach the other guys, in any gameworld where these boots exist.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Melee Clerics–Actually that good?
« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2009, 02:05:31 PM »
Quote
Those boots are incredibly cheesy for the price.

Right, I still both used them and allow them. My DM in one campaign just doesn't let anyone charge me, and I'll probably do likewise, since charging is really not such a good tactic, if you don't outreach the other guys, in any gameworld where these boots exist.
Which is fine by me. I'm sick of all the OMFGUBERCHARGER builds, anyway. I'm glad there is a cheesy magic item to counter that cheese. Add on something that lets you teleport/5' step/whatever as an immediate action, and you still don't have to take the guys damage even if he doesn't die from charging you.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Brainpiercing

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Re: Melee Clerics–Actually that good?
« Reply #88 on: May 11, 2009, 06:36:56 PM »
Quote
Those boots are incredibly cheesy for the price.

Right, I still both used them and allow them. My DM in one campaign just doesn't let anyone charge me, and I'll probably do likewise, since charging is really not such a good tactic, if you don't outreach the other guys, in any gameworld where these boots exist.
Which is fine by me. I'm sick of all the OMFGUBERCHARGER builds, anyway. I'm glad there is a cheesy magic item to counter that cheese. Add on something that lets you teleport/5' step/whatever as an immediate action, and you still don't have to take the guys damage even if he doesn't die from charging you.
There's a reason for those conjuror dips.... :)

Vinom

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Re: Melee Clerics–Actually that good?
« Reply #89 on: May 11, 2009, 07:13:07 PM »
I'm currently working on a flying melee cleric...
why tank when you can blitz and range from the air?
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