Author Topic: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator  (Read 71967 times)

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Alastar

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A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« on: May 01, 2009, 12:41:58 PM »
Links to related work:
The ''Chuck, the ruby knight windicator'' build, situated here http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=852524http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=330.0


A quick look at the RKV pros:

Full BAB: While if you have gone the cleric entry way, this can easily be replaced by divine power, if you go by the paladin way, this is a VERY nice feature, as you do not lose any BAB and you can get your iterative attacks ASAP.

Full Initiator Level progression:  While you can't swap low level techniques for higher level ones, this means you still have a nice progression of maneuvers to choose from, although they are only from devoted spirit, shadow hand, stone dragon and white raven. Heck, that's a pretty wide variety!

8/10 Divine casting: This little baby here enables you to keep spellcasting, whether you are a cleric or a paladin, to it's almost full potential, a cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/Contemplative 5 (or something) build would then get level 9 spells, making sure that they are both deadly melee fighters as well as all around useful caster.

A quick look at RKV class features:

Divine Recovery: Incredibly useful skill.  You just used a very good maneuver, that you would need right now?  Fear not!! You're only one swift action and a turn undead away from having it again, and laying waste to your opponents!  Onwards friends, this is the ''constancy'' power of the RKV.

Armored Stealth:  Divine Impetus:   :evillaugh Reality is for suckers, I think I'm going to break it.  This skill allows you to gain a number of swift actions equal to your remaining turn undead attempts per day.  Just by hearing that, several options popped into your head, all of them nearly overpowered?  Yeah, that's what the intended effect is.  One of the best class powers in the whole system, if not the best.

Divine Fury:Let's look at requirements:Skills: 4 Ranks in Hide and intimidate, as well as 8 ranks in Knowledge (religion). pretty easy to get, just pick a class with knowledge (religion) as a class skill, and get the others cross class, no biggy.  this means you can easily get in by your 6th level as a full fledged RKV.

Martial Maneuvers: at least one Devoted spirit maneuver.  Easily filled by one level of crusader or the Martial Study Feat to get a maneuver.

Martial Stancess:  at least one Devoted Spirit Stance. Yes, with two s' in the book ^^.  Same here, 1 level dip of crusader or the Martial Stance feat.  

Deity: Wee Ja.  All Flavour, no problem, can be modified for any fitting god in other campaigns, but ask your Dm if you're planning on doing that.

Special: ability to turn or rebuke undead.  Unless you're somehow planning to take a 1 level dip in dread necromancer just to be weird, this pretty much means you're either gonna be some sort of paladin, or a cleric, maybe a sacred exorcist.


Entry Paths

Paladin 4/Crusader 1: Cleric 4/Crusader 1: Main spellcaster build, this ensures you're getting level 9 spells, while still having a lot of front line power from the devoted spirit maneuvers.

Cleric 2/Crusader 3:  Mostly a manifesting side, you want to be a big stick that is hard to take down and is further buffed by the cleric side, probably going for the level 9 devoted spirit maneuvers.

Swordsage 2/Cleric 2/Crusader 1:  you're going for chuck, stop doing that, breaking games is bad.

Crusader 4/Cleric 1: while not as strong in the long run it does offer the fastest possible way to acquire Thicket of Blades stance (level 6)

The following two are by Ninjarabbit
crusader7/blackguard3/RKV10  Gives you all you need, and charisma to saves.

paladin4/crusader1/pioustemplar2/RKV10/crusader3  With the added bonus of Mettle

Check out the builds section for more entry paths.


Spells:

Cleric
Divine Favor
Divine Power
Righteous Might
Righteous Wrath of the Faithful
Superior Resistance
Divine agility
Greater Visage of the Deity
Magic Vestment
Greater Magic Weapon
Death Ward

**open to suggestions**

Paladin
Divine Favor
Greater Magic weapon
Magic Vestment
Holy Sword
Death Ward
Divine Sacrifice
Rhino's rush
Knight's move
Strength of Stone
Diamondsteel
Draconic Might

Maneuvers:-If you have a way to mitigate the Con damage, Greater Divine Surge is awesome
-Aura of Perfect Order is nice to get that average roll once every round
-Castigating Strike is a "meh" double threat (area damage + small debuff)
-Immortal Fortitude means "I (somewhat) have 3 lives"
-the healing maneuvers in general help a little
-if the RKV uses a shield, both shield maneuvers are great
-for battle field control RKVs, Thicket of Blades is a nice addition
-Entangling Blade offers no save and is amazing at keeping foes around you
-White Raven tactics, to make someone near you act just after you as a swift action.

Feats:-DMM Quicken for obvious reasons
-Practiced Spellcaster to keep you afloat on CL
Submitted by prime32- Battle Blessing, if you add this to the prestige paladin class option, you become near unstoppable.**subject to DM approval**
-Extra Granted Maneuver is always nice

Builds:

Paladin 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/Paladin +2/Crusader +3.  Get 4th level paladin spells get 7th level Crusader maneuvers.  You're probably going to use Battle Blessing with Divine Impetus to deadly buffing effects.

Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/Contemplative 5.  You are CoDzilla, you win at everything.  Forever.  Heavy cleric buffing mixed with level 6 maneuvers means you're better at every class daring to call itself melee, in melee.  You also get level 9 spells, you are unstoppable, no one is better than you, raaah.  Except for druids maybe...

Cloistered Cleric 1/Crusader 3/Ordained Champ 1/RKV 7/Ordained Champion +4/Contemplative 4: (thanks to Akalsaris) Ordained Champion from CC is another PrC that meshes well with RKV if you intend to be the party tank.  It loses MORE caster levels, but you can spontaneously cast from the war domain, can channel spells into your weapon (saves actions), and can auto-quicken war domain spells (including divine power and blade barrier).  Combined with two swift actions a round that means you can cast two quickened flame strikes per round in addition to making a full attack, for example.

- Archivist 11/Sacred Exorcist 1/Crusader 1/RKV 7
(Omen of Peace)

- Archivist 7/Sacred Exorcist 1/Crusader 1/RKV 10/Contemplative 1(Omen of Peace)

- Cloistered Cleric 1/Archivist 3/Crusader 1/RKV 10/Contemplative 5: (Omen of Peace) SE can also be replaced by a Cloistered Cleric dip for the usual Domain power + Devotion feats mix - or simply to get into RKV earlier.

- Crusader 5/Soldier of Light 1/RKV 10/Crusader +4 (maneuver-focused)(Omen of Peace): It should be possible to do a build with Soldier of Light (from Deities & Demigods) if you wave the Wee Jas fluff prereq.  You can go to SoL 2 if you want Divine Grace.

Paladin4/crusader3/divinecrusader2/RKV10/crusader1 Thanks to NinjaRabbit 9th level spells in one domain, IL of 17

Submitted by gorfnad
Ruby Knight Vindicat"Ur"s
Human Paragon (with Able Learner feat) 1/ Crusader 4/ Ur-Priest 2/ Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/ Crusader 3
Paladin of Tyranny 2/ Hexblade 3/ Crusader 3/ Ur-Priest 2/ Ruby Knight Vindicator 10

Pouncing Vindicators
Swordsage 2/ Cloistered Cleric  (Travel, Darkness)1/ Crusader 2/ Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/ Telfammar Shadowlord 5
Mystic Ranger 4/ Cloistered Cleric 1/ Crusader 1/ Swordsage 2/ Ruby Knight Vindicator 8/ Telfammar Shadowlord 4
Rogue 3/ Cloistered Cleric 1/ Crusader 1/ Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 / Telfammar Shadowlord 5
Rogue 3/ Human Paragon 1/ Crusader 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Ruby Knight Vindicator 7/ Contemplative 1 (Travel Domain)/ Human Paragon 1/ Telfammar Shadowlord 4

Mage Stalking Vindicator
Mystic Ranger 4/ Knight of the Raven 3/ Stalker of Kharash 2/ Crusader 1/ Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 (Arcane Hunter ACF, Sword of the Arcane Order feat)

More TO than PO, here's the knight of shadows , made by yours truly.
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=333.0
Cleric 3/Swordsage 1/Crusader 1/Crinti Shadow Marauder 5/Swashbuckler 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 7/Swordsage +2, this allows you to pounce an absurd number of times in a given round, and each pounce causing devastating damage.  Plus, the dual IL progression is always nice.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 11:14:11 PM by Alastar »

Akalsaris

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2009, 04:37:08 PM »
Ordained Champion from CC is another PrC that meshes well with RKV if you intend to be the party tank.  It loses MORE caster levels, but you can spontaneously cast from the war domain, can channel spells into your weapon (saves actions), and can auto-quicken war domain spells (including divine power and blade barrier).  Combined with two swift actions a round, that means you can cast two quickened flame strikes per round in addition to making a full attack, for example.

Cloistered Cleric 1/Crusader 3/Ordained Champ 1/RKV 7/Ordained Champion +4/Contemplative 4 (CL 13) would be a sample build.

Alastar

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2009, 04:57:19 PM »
Added.

Nachofan99

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2009, 06:03:25 PM »
Just curious, but from a RAW standpoint does Divine Impetus very strongly indicate you may only use it to gain that 2nd Swift action each round and not as many Swift actions as you can burn turn-attempts for?  I'm reading the entry now and I can see how you *can* make a case for it, especially with the provided examples, but I don't see something that says "you may do this only once per turn".  I do see the typical ambiguous words like "a" and then later "one" - this is not as crystal clear for me as other abilities with limitations that say "you may only do this once per X."

Not a thread derail, just curious.

Alastar

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2009, 06:10:05 PM »
You can use divine impetus as many times as you want in a round,provided you can pay the turn undead attempt,  if they wanted a limitation, they would have specified either that it cost an action, or that it could be used x times/day. 

I believe this is to go into synergy with the divine recovery thing, they only didn't think of the rest, or that it was very easy to up your turn undead attempts.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2009, 06:12:09 PM »
Just curious, but from a RAW standpoint does Divine Impetus very strongly indicate you may only use it to gain that 2nd Swift action each round and not as many Swift actions as you can burn turn-attempts for?  I'm reading the entry now and I can see how you *can* make a case for it, especially with the provided examples, but I don't see something that says "you may do this only once per turn".  I do see the typical ambiguous words like "a" and then later "one" - this is not as crystal clear for me as other abilities with limitations that say "you may only do this once per X."

Not a thread derail, just curious.

i think the lack of limitation to once a round and the fact that it doesn't state what if any kind of action using Divine Impetus requires.  Also the wording "...one additional swift..." the word additional is cumulative by definition would put this in the realm of accurate interpretation as we have seen it thus far.

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Omen of Peace

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2009, 08:00:42 PM »
- Archivist 11/Sacred Exorcist 1/Crusader 1/RKV 7
- Archivist 7/Sacred Exorcist 1/Crusader 1/RKV 10/Contemplative 1

SE can also be replaced by a Cloistered Cleric dip for the usual Domain power + Devotion feats mix - or simply to get into RKV earlier.
- Cloistered Cleric 1/Archivist 3/Crusader 1/RKV 10/Contemplative 5

I've played epic Archivist/RKV and they quite simply rock.

It should be possible to do a build with Soldier of Light (from Deities & Demigods) if you wave the Wee Jas fluff prereq.
- Crusader 5/Soldier of Light 1/RKV 10/Crusader +4 (maneuver-focused)
You can go to SoL 2 if you want Divine Grace.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 08:07:48 PM by Omen of Peace »
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Alastar

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2009, 11:15:06 AM »
Added your builds.

Anyone care to help me with the maneuvers?

I don't know witch ones to recommend.

Risada

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2009, 11:24:45 AM »
Pulling out of my memory (Devoted Spirit only):

-If you have a way to mitigate the Con damage, Greater Divine Surge is awesome
-Aura of Perfect Order is nice to get that average roll once every round
-Castigating Strike is a "meh" double threat (area damage + small debuff)
-Immortal Fortitude means "I (somewhat) have 3 lives"
-the healing maneuvers in general help a little
-if the RKV uses a shield, both shield maneuvers are great
-for battle field control RKVs, Thicket of Blades is a nice addition
-Entangling Blade offers no save and is amazing at keeping foes around you


Endarire

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2010, 05:35:19 PM »
A Cleric4/Crusader1/Ruby Knight Vindicator10 can get a level 8 maneuver and level 9 spells if you stagger levels.

Take RKV10 at level 20 and ta-da!
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Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Garryl

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2010, 09:26:33 PM »
Full Initiator Level progression:   While you can't swap low level techniques for higher level ones, this means you still have a nice progression of maneuvers to choose from, althought they are only from devoted spirit and shadow hand.

RKVs can pick from Devoted Spirit, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, and White Raven for maneuvers and stances, not just DS and SH.
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Prime32

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2010, 10:05:29 PM »
Prestige Paladin dip + Battle Blessing.

Read the text of that feat. Now think about the RKV's class features for a moment.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
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Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Tonymitsu

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2010, 10:22:30 PM »
Prestige Paladin dip + Battle Blessing.

Read the text of that feat. Now think about the RKV's class features for a moment.

Wait, ...what?
Prestige paladin makes the entire character's spell list paladin spells?




Also, a maneuver:

White Raven Tactics

Probably the best maneuver in the book.
As a standard action, you choose an ally within 10 feet and set their initiative total to yours - 1.  If they've already gone this round, they go again.
So pretty you much double the effect of the best whatever one of your party members can accomplish in one round.

Prime32

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2010, 10:34:16 PM »
Wait, ...what?
Prestige paladin makes the entire character's spell list paladin spells?
Even if it doesn't, there's always Sword of the Arcane Order.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

bearsarebrown

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2010, 10:39:08 PM »
Prestige Paladin dip + Battle Blessing.

Read the text of that feat. Now think about the RKV's class features for a moment.

Wait, ...what?
Prestige paladin makes the entire character's spell list paladin spells?

Because it shares the spell list, yes, technically. It's stupid stupid RAW.

KellKheraptis

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2010, 10:40:29 PM »
Prestige Paladin dip + Battle Blessing.

Read the text of that feat. Now think about the RKV's class features for a moment.

There is wisdom in this statement...I'm working on a Psionic version of these, based on ardent, and also an Ur-Knight Phoenix, both reaching 16 BAB with heavy armor and 9th level spells/power and maneuvers.  The Ur-Knight can potentially outspell anything short of a Beholder Mage.

EDIT : Bearsarebrown was expecting this post :P
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Akalsaris

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2010, 10:55:05 PM »
Even if you're just going normal paladin 4/crusader 1/RKV 10, Battle Blessing is still a good feat choice imo.

Tonymitsu

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2010, 11:04:37 PM »
So a one-level dip in Prestige Paladin and suddenly you're now considered a paladin with whatever spell list you went in with?


That's insane.

Even with the logical interpretation of Divine Impetus giving only one extra swift action a round that's three 9th level spells in one round... just with class abilities.


But yeah,
If you're doing regular paladin entry, Battle Blessing seems like a gimmie for any build.

bearsarebrown

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2010, 11:34:00 PM »
Prestige Paladin dip + Battle Blessing.

Read the text of that feat. Now think about the RKV's class features for a moment.

There is wisdom in this statement...I'm working on a Psionic version of these, based on ardent, and also an Ur-Knight Phoenix, both reaching 16 BAB with heavy armor and 9th level spells/power and maneuvers.  The Ur-Knight can potentially outspell anything short of a Beholder Mage.

EDIT : Bearsarebrown was expecting this post :P
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ninjarabbit

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Re: A quick guide to: The Ruby Knight Vindicator
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2010, 01:16:46 AM »
paladin4/crusader3/divinecrusader2/RKV10/crusader1

9th level spells in one domain, IL of 17