Author Topic: 4th Edition PDFs leaked  (Read 9246 times)

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heffroncm

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2008, 04:29:46 PM »
I know that certain monsters in the MM will be converted to PC races. How is this actually implemented? Are they just normal PHB style races with special racial feats, or some sort of 3e "savage progression"?

How close are they to the actual monsters themselves? I won't be getting 4e until a few more months at least (when my finances are not so tight), so I have no way of ascertaining myself.:(

There are 16 races in the Monster Manual: Bugbear, Doppleganger, Drow, Githanki, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Minotaur, Orc, Shadar-kai Shifter: Longtooth, Shifter: Razorclaw, and Warforged.  They are the same as PHB races, with 2 stat bonuses and flavorful abilities.  Kobolds, for example, make disturbingly good Rogues, while Minotaurs can use oversized weaponry and get a Goring Charge power that knocks people over.  There are no Racial Feats for these monsters, but there are very few Racial Feats for the PHB races either.  The MM races match up well with their monster entries, getting the same flavorful abilities that tie the monster race together.  All Hobgoblin monsters have the same Hobgoblin Resilience that players get, all Minotaur monsters have Goring Charge, Drow can use either Darkfire or Cloud of Darkness just like their monster entry, etc.

Runestar

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2008, 05:01:40 PM »
Warforged... :drool What stats do they have?
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heffroncm

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2008, 05:07:06 PM »
Warforged... :drool What stats do they have?

+2 STR & CON, SPD 6, Vision Normal, +2 Endurance (skill)
+2 Saves vs. Damage
No need to eat, drink, or breathe, but this does not render immune to any effect (nice to have this spelled out)
4 hour Extended Rest
Gets the better of whatever is rolled or 10 on a Death Save, rendering them immune to dieing by failed saving throws.
Warforged Resolve, Encounter power, minor, gain Temp HP = 3 + 1/2lvl, must be Bloodied to use

avg Height: 6' - 6'6''
avg Weight: 270 - 300 lbs

They'd make great meattank fighters.

brislove

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2008, 09:44:58 PM »
I'm disappointed that they barely nerfed Wall of Fire at all and didn't touch Wall of Ice. Surround someone with the Wall of Ice and just watch the damage rack up; the Wall of Fire can do a crapload of damage if you surround an enemy with it and have you and allies push them back in when they get out.
So, I know that they got rid of summoning, but do wizards have much in the way of crowd control?  Do they still have spells or equivalents of Evard's Black Tenticles, Web, Solid Fog, Glitterdust, and Grease?

Evard's Black Tentacles damages and Immobilizes (save end) on a hit, creates a Zone of Difficult Terrain, and can be Sustained to do auto-damage to anything Immobilized and make a new attack on anything that is not Immobilized.  And it hits a 5x5 area within 10 squares.  It's pretty powerful crowd control, but not available until level 19 and is a daily.

Web is a Daily Burst 2 that on a hit Immobilizes.  It lasts until the end of the encounter or 5 minutes, creating a zone of difficult terrain that auto-immobilizes anything ending their in the web.  Save ends both immobilize effects.

No Solid Fog, but there is a Wall of Fog daily, fills 8 squares in a Wall, Sustain Minor, blocks LoS and grants Concealment.

No Grease or Glitterdust.

Most Encounter power crowd control spells last until the end of your next turn.  Orb wizards can prolong these effects.  A disabler-type wizard is still fully possible.


Evards is actually a 9x9 area. it's radius 4 BURST. meaning you pick a spot and go out 4 spaces in every direction from that point. thats almost twice as good as a BLAST 5.

Burst denotes the radius, and blast denotes the length of a side. all squares are equal size so instead of circles we have squares.

yellerSumner

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2008, 09:48:26 PM »
Evards is actually a 9x9 area. it's radius 4 BURST. meaning you pick a spot and go out 4 spaces in every direction from that point. thats almost twice as good as a BLAST 5.

Burst denotes the radius, and blast denotes the length of a side. all squares are equal size so instead of circles we have squares.

....That sounds like needless confusion.  Weren't they trying to get rid of that?

heffroncm

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2008, 09:49:04 PM »
 :P :fu
Stupid Blast / Burst stuff.  I can envision them perfectly, I just can't describe them properly.

It really isn't needless confusion.  When you're actually using it, it works great.

brislove

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2008, 09:58:28 PM »
the need for at difference was based on close attacks. a Close burst goes all directions from you. a close blast you choose a square that is next to you to start it and draw the sides from that point (like a dragon breath for example).

Pretty much everything with range is a burst. I can't think of a blast that isn't "close" atm.

RobbyPants

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2008, 10:01:19 PM »
Burst denotes the radius, and blast denotes the length of a side. all squares are equal size so instead of circles we have squares.
Yeah, I'm still not sure what I think about that.  I never had a problem with the whole 1.5 diagonal thing myself.
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brislove

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2008, 10:03:46 PM »
That's good to know.  One of the biggest things making me wonder if I even wanted 4E was that thought that wizards were simply becoming blasters...

Warlocks can do better AoE damage than Wizards with the right power selection.  Almost everything a Wizard can do carries some sort of debilitating penalty with it.

No they can't. Warlocks have a few sparring powers that have AOE effects, they are mostly dailies, and they are much smaller area. Wizards have AoE and immobilize. warlocks have positioning/charm/single target damage. Warlocks have 7 attacks that hit multiples, 3 encounter powers, that are all close (IE melee range), 3 dailies (burst 1 ranged) and 1 that hits 2 targets with eldritch blast (encounter).

Burst denotes the radius, and blast denotes the length of a side. all squares are equal size so instead of circles we have squares.
Yeah, I'm still not sure what I think about that.  I never had a problem with the whole 1.5 diagonal thing myself.

I like a hex grid for this system. It works better. I don't like the recounting diagonals or trying to explain that aspect to new players. it's just more difficult, and WAY harder for spell templates. if realism effects things that much for you, hex is the way to go with this system.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 10:07:02 PM by brislove »

yellerSumner

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2008, 10:06:53 PM »
Okay, that helps clear it up.  Still, it would've been nice if they'd picked words that didn't start with the same letter.

So far I've only skimmed the PHB.  It was late enough last night that I couldn't focus on one section for more than a moment or so before scrolling on to the next pretty picture or word that looked interesting.  This morning, I basically got up and skimmed through the MM because that was sure to have pictures.

brislove

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2008, 10:08:39 PM »
ya, I just wish they would said Radius x burst. the radius would make it obviously apparent.

Bill Bisco: Eloquent Elf

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2008, 11:51:09 PM »
I'm disappointed that they barely nerfed Wall of Fire at all and didn't touch Wall of Ice. Surround someone with the Wall of Ice and just watch the damage rack up; the Wall of Fire can do a crapload of damage if you surround an enemy with it and have you and allies push them back in when they get out.

(There's also a couple mistakes. One of the cleric L23 Encounter powers is *exactly like* one of the cleric L27 Encounter powers... only with an additional bonus.)
Thank you for pointing the wall out.  That's one thing that I missed.  I must refine my optimization senses  :smirk  Are there any attacks that can get through the wall?

Optimator

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2008, 08:22:39 AM »
It seems like Hobgoblins should get +2 Dex instead of Cha based on their 3.5 counterparts, but I could see Cha too.  Still, the other goblins get a bonus to Dex and Hobgoblins always got the Move Silently bonus too.

bhu

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2008, 12:33:59 AM »
Rumor has it the Monster Manual no longer has Dinosaurs.  Is this true?

Skara Brae

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2008, 02:06:58 AM »
Rumor has it the Monster Manual no longer has Dinosaurs.  Is this true?
Yes.  I did not see any dinosaurs in the MM.

X-Codes

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2008, 02:07:49 AM »
The designers probably didn't bother re-designing the dinosaurs when they saw that the only one used consistently was the Fleshraker.

bhu

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2008, 06:51:43 AM »
The designers probably didn't bother re-designing the dinosaurs when they saw that the only one used consistently was the Fleshraker.


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Ieniemienie

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2008, 08:40:45 PM »
there are indead no dinosaurs in the MM...

there are an additonal 16 playable races in it, which I find remarkable
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SixthDeclension

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2008, 10:57:03 PM »
Ahhhh, but alas. There are no racial feats for these 16 races...
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AlienFromBeyond

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Re: 4th Edition PDFs leaked
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2008, 11:18:04 PM »
Ahhhh, but alas. There are no racial feats for these 16 races...
It is unfortunate, but maybe it's one of those things we'll end up seeing in Dragon?