Dragonfire Adept and Perilous Veil– Fail-a-bunch-of-Saves or Die?

[ReaderOfPosts]

Correct me if this doesn't work as described.

As most of you are no doubt aware, The Dragonfire Adept invocation Perilous Veil works as per Veil, except anyone who succeeds on the Will-disbelief takes 5d6 damage. A few futures commend this spell.

• As an invocation, it is usable at will
• It lasts 1hr/CL
• Unlike some invocations, you may have as many up at a time as you desire
• And to quote the PHB pg 174 "If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus"

A couple things about this spell hurt. Since your party will interact with you, they will get the saves and thus, quite possibly take damage, unless you can figure out a way to make them automatically disbelieve. However, you can expose them gradually and before you're in danger, so to the limits of your OOC healing, you can layer on as many Perilous Veils as you so desire. Then, at the beginning of an encounter, you merely communicate to your foes that your appearance is an illusion and describe what you actually look like. They then gain a number of saving throws with a +4 bonus, and take 5d6 damage for each successful save.

"A blond Dragonfire adept walked into the bar. He proceeded to loudly proclaim that he was under powerful illusion magic and was actually dark haired. Then everyone died."

[Risada]

Which book is this Perilous Veil invocation in? 

[ReaderOfPosts]

Dragon Magic, where one finds the class itself.

[Brainpiercing]

That's sort of...

I also disagree that the caster takes the damage himself, because he doesn't have to make the save. He just KNOWS.

[ReaderOfPosts]

Actually, glancing at the wording of the invocation, it does state that any character that succeeds on a will save to disbelief, so the caster or anyone given absolute proof of the veil being an illusion don't take the damage (making true seeing being and effective protection against this tactic). Your party members probably will take the damage at some point in the day however, presuming they interact with you.

[jameswilliamogle]

Isn't there an invocation that gives temp HP to get around this bit?

[ReaderOfPosts]

Spider Thieves seem like a cheap delivery mechanism to deliver the perilous veil. Just order a bunch of these to steal something from your foe, and when they're inevitably caught, they'll deliver their 5d6 damage.

[jameswilliamogle]

IF the DM allows Warlocks to pick up Dragonfire Adept invocations, how about using The Dead Walk for these shenanigans? 

Seems great for storming a BBEG's lair.  Kill all the minions going in, then use The Dead Walk and Perilous Veil on them, then have them run into attack the BBEG while all disguised as his mother.  Or, the DFA could also just pick up Leadership to do the same thing (or use a Pale Master type).

Just need to make sure the party already knows, right?  Knowing its an illusion isn't the same as disbelieving its an illusion?

Actually seems like a good reason to have a low Cha, lol!

[ReaderOfPosts]

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Very interesting.

Can't you ask your party members to fail that specific illusion effect's will save? Problem solved?

Assuming you continually throw this invocation up... how much damage could you get at 1 shot? This looks tasty

[jameswilliamogle]

Depends...  Since its 1 h/CL after concentration, and each hour has 600 rounds, and if the BBEG disbelieves all of them, and its encountered in the very last round of the duration (before the first one expires), then thats
(max)600 Perilous Veils / CL x 5d6 per succeeding = 3000d6 / CL

A ridiculous scenario, for sure...  If we assume CL 16 (the earliest one could take it) then that becomes
(max)48000d6 ~ 168000 (its over nine thousssaaaannnndddd!!!!)

If we assume the BBEG has really low Will saves, and you maxed your Cha (b/c you wanted to survive at lower level), and the BBEG has to roll a 20 to disbelieve, then the average would be
2400d6 ~ 8400 damage

So, between 8400 and 168000 damage as soon as one gets it.  Don't show your DMs...  DFAs are already (incorrectly) considered overpowered by many.

Would simulacra help in this cheese?

[BowenSilverclaw]

Would simulacra help in this cheese?

Or Body Outside Body or what ever that Wu Jen 'clone' spell is called

[jameswilliamogle]

Would simulacra help in this cheese?

Or Body Outside Body or what ever that Wu Jen 'clone' spell is called

Yeah, even better, I think!  I'd have to look it up, but with UMD on the skill list that shit should work well.  Then, they can create duplicates to multiply the effect for each duplicate, I think.

Phrenic Creature could do it too at that level (via fission).

[BowenSilverclaw]

Would simulacra help in this cheese?

Or Body Outside Body or what ever that Wu Jen 'clone' spell is called

Yeah, even better, I think!  I'd have to look it up, but with UMD on the skill list that shit should work well.  Then, they can create duplicates to multiply the effect for each duplicate, I think.

Phrenic Creature could do it too at that level (via fission).

Doesn't Fission only allow mental actions? IIRC Invocations also requires somatic components (AFB right now), hence the ASF...

[PhaedrusXY]

Doesn't Fission only allow mental actions? IIRC Invocations also requires somatic components (AFB right now), hence the ASF...

No, that's Schism. Fission actually creates a physical duplicate of you.

then have them run into attack the BBEG while all disguised as his mother.

You are a sick, sick man.

[veekie]

then have them run into attack the BBEG while all disguised as his mother.

You are a sick, sick man.

For maximum impact, the disguise should be an attractive member of the opposite sex.

[Anklebite]

so his mother then?

[Suzerain]

Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief)

[...]

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.

Emphasis mine. I think that means you and your party are not damaged if you know it's an illusion.