Author Topic: Need Help Pulling Punches  (Read 12287 times)

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tsuyoshikentsu

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Need Help Pulling Punches
« on: April 21, 2009, 03:31:45 AM »
Okay, so here's what's going on.  I have accepted a challenge from a local gaming group: me versus the entire group at once.

Now, here's the problem.  This is epic levels but with Epic Spellcasting banned, so I could easily kill them with my Shaedling.  That wouldn't be any FUN, though, as the fight would last about one round real-time.  Similarly, there's the HIVE, Tainted Scholar plus at-will Time Stop, other campaign smashers... you know.

But on the flip side, this is a five-person Epic party with at least two optimized characters.  If I do something that's just optimized -- even, perhaps, in the strongest part of practical -- I will die very, very quickly.  So, essentially, I need to strike a balance.  Ideas?
Anyway, this cake is great!  It's so delicious and moist.

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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2009, 03:48:11 AM »
What does the enemy party consist of and how optimized is each character?

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Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2009, 03:52:38 AM »
..... the above, plus what's your motivation? 5 to 1, sounds like it'd be fun to just plow through them in a single round, 6-seconds real time or otherwise. So are you "pulling punches" just to make sure you don't bruise their egos?...

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2009, 04:07:59 AM »
Level? I'd go with a Psion. Anticipatory Strike + some way to act if flat-footed (or just use a Contingent Temporal Acceleration) + Delay power feat + Metamorphosis (Chronotryn) = massive nukage before they even get to act. If they have a spellcaster capable of the same crap, you might get out-jibbed by the same thing, though. Turn your psicrystal into a beholder and aim its AM ray at the most dangerous guy for extra security. You'll have to use Crystal Shard to kill him, though.

You can have a Schism running for a constant Timeless Body, if you don't want to use Temporal Acceleration. :D
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 04:09:39 AM by PhaedrusXY »
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sonofzeal

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2009, 04:17:38 AM »
Okay... you want to WIN, but not be totally ludicrous doing it... hmm....

Well, killing them all in a single round is trivial.  Any number of builds can do that just fine.  Instead, work from the premise of negating them.  What can you do, with whatever clever tricks you can muster, to completely nerf each of them or make sure they can't hurt you, while you can still hurt them?  Two ideas: Ikea Tarrasque, and Incorporeality inside an AMF. 

mans0011

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2009, 05:09:18 AM »
Swiftblade with levels of Incantatrix or Initiate of the Seven-fold Veil deliciousness? If swiftblade add in a level of Barbarian for pounce....
OOC-well for that matter he could just ride on my sword, that's about 15' ;)
OOC - That's what SHE said!  But, otherwise, that works for me, if you guys are willing.

tsuyoshikentsu

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 05:20:57 AM »
Okay, here is what I know about the party.

Robert: If I have this right, a Master of the Unseen Hand in some kind of construct body.  Easily the most optimized in the group, with the exception of Peter's unknown.  Wields something like 6 vorpal swords via TK.

Zafar: Some kind of psionics natural-attacker.  Has a Dex of something like 12; I figure he's a Shivering Touch candidate.

Mike: A wizard, but not optimized.  No idea past that.

Sam: I BELIEVE she's a bard.  She's more focused on storytelling than rules, but the others made her character.

Ian: No idea, but from what I know of his other characters he won't be a problem.  For instance, in a very high level game, he thought at-will Produce Flame was good.

Peter: Unknown.  Danger is compounded by the fact that he's versed enough in CO lore to recognize my username in real life.  The good news is, I'm not actually sure if he'll be against me in this; I've not been counting him so far.

My starting level is 30, I believe.  (Remember, no Epic Spellcasting, though.)  No idea on the conditions of the battle, but I'm assuming basic arena with normal init structure in place.

My motivation is that, in the optimization camp on my campus, I am something of a local legend.  Russ (the DM), Zafar, and Peter have all seen my work on the CO boards, scant though it may be, and informed the others that I'm some kind of optimization deity.  So I'm basically defending my honor here, but I have to do it in a fashion that will be fun, for four reasons.  1) Sam is very, very hot; 2) I'm a DM at heart and care; 3) how good at building characters can I be if I can't restrain myself; and 4) I really do need to emphasize here how hot Sam is.  It would also be nice not to bruise their egos, though, as this campus is quite small.

My current "Rip Them Apart ASAP" build is Shaedling Sorcerer with Celerity and Time Stop, then gossamer up a Ring of Infinite Everything.
Anyway, this cake is great!  It's so delicious and moist.

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Akalsaris

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2009, 05:26:09 AM »
Considering that she probably doesn't care much about a character that other people made for her for a silly challenge, I doubt Sam will really care if you beat the party.  Unless you do your crazy in-your-face victory dance afterwards =P

As for the character, I'd try and make him with no psionics or casting, epic or not, and no minions or leadership.  That should raise the optimization bar quite a bit.


Brainpiercing

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2009, 05:37:06 AM »
Um.... will anyone DM? Will it be anything goes? I mean by level 30 I would just get a crapton of magic items just by crafting with a thougth bottle, but, for instance, in my group that just wouldn't fly. The shaedling also wouldn't fly, even if it's RAW. Persistant Time Stop won't fly, even if it's RAW. Infinite wishes via Efreet won't fly, but it certainly totally RAW. Infinite Strength via consumptive field? Not more cheesy than the shaedling. These things are all just too easy. I mean by lvl 30 you could be a Demilich, recover XP via bottle, and while not overly strong offensively the defence and magical flight as an Ex-ability is a handy thing. You only need a way to combine it with the Initiate of Mystra :).

I mean, at that point you really only need to go Dweomerkeeper for that ONE miracle that is worded: I WILL win this battle without dying in the process. And then everybody is fucked, because sure as hell it has to happen, by divine intervention if need be.

So yeah, I guess, a look at the rules of this fight would be appropriate.

Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2009, 05:56:33 AM »
Wanna pull punches? At level 30? There's gotta be some Trollblood + Fire-souled + (acid immunity?) = Can't take damage, or maybe just get fire immunity and go to town with a nearly damage immune (all but acid, ha!) monk. Or fighter; bet you could do a bit qith a lv 30 human fighter that can't die, save by being digested. And no epic spellcasting, you should be able to at least murder the party and then play tag with the wizard until he runs out of spells.

There's gotta be a way to get regen and an immunity without a ridiculous amount of dipping (simpler builds look elegant, and scream badass when you take out a party) or access to dragon or something they might not have...
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 05:59:12 AM by Flay Crimsonwind »

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2009, 06:31:21 AM »
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bayar

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2009, 07:01:54 AM »
Druid + Planar shepherd ?

Tshern

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2009, 07:59:04 AM »
Druid + Planar shepherd ?
He's pulling punches, not infinities.

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2009, 08:13:48 AM »
That's a strange challenge. Kind of like: the first to shout "I'm Pun-Pun !" wins.

As soon as you go infinite the fight is meaningless. If you stay finite, I'd put in a suggestion for Wizard/Incantatrix/Shadowcraft Mage. Add more Incantatrix in epic, or some Ur-Priest if you feel like it or Initiate of the Veils...

If you want more actions you could use the Body outside Body + SLAs tricks.

edit: I also love Archivist going into Ruby Knight Vindicator. You have all the buffs in the world and you can combine with BoB to have your clones give you extra turns via White Raven Tactics...
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 09:51:28 AM by Omen of Peace »
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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2009, 08:23:22 AM »
Ask sam's character out :p
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Prime32

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2009, 11:31:03 AM »
Wanna pull punches? At level 30? There's gotta be some Trollblood + Fire-souled + (acid immunity?) = Can't take damage, or maybe just get fire immunity and go to town with a nearly damage immune (all but acid, ha!) monk. Or fighter; bet you could do a bit qith a lv 30 human fighter that can't die, save by being digested. And no epic spellcasting, you should be able to at least murder the party and then play tag with the wizard until he runs out of spells.

There's gotta be a way to get regen and an immunity without a ridiculous amount of dipping (simpler builds look elegant, and scream badass when you take out a party) or access to dragon or something they might not have...
Voidmind barbarian. Feats: Troll-blooded, Blazing Berserker. At high levels, get this as a cohort. Play a mindflayer in a safe place and cast spells through it. Tell people the barbarian is your character.

Ask sam's character out :p
-1 character to worry about muhahah >:-D
Arrange this ahead of time:
You: "Sam, who does your character love?"
Sam: "All the other members of the party!"
You: *Spam love's pain*

Or you could try some of the builds in my sig. Maybe combine them - get a suplex guy with a fist possessed by demons who have a shapeshifting familiar. :p
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 11:33:05 AM by Prime32 »
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Brainpiercing

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2009, 11:59:46 AM »
Hmmmm, perhaps he should just try to add up ALL the cheese into a single character?

A Shaedling DMM Cleric Dweomerkeeper using Ice-assassin Corellons?


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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2009, 12:12:48 PM »
My current "Rip Them Apart ASAP" build is Shaedling Sorcerer with Celerity and Time Stop, then gossamer up a Ring of Infinite Everything.
Personally, I'd suggest two builds.  Roll up the one you think will work without pulling punches, and roll up a weaker version as discussed here.

Use the first PC against them, and, assuming you destroy them, offer a rematch with the weaker character.
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mans0011

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2009, 12:21:16 PM »
I really think your best bet is initiate of the seven-fold veil. It's super defensive--giving you immediate actions that make you almost untouchable. Not to mention Kaleidoscopic doom.... I know you won't have epic spellcasting, but you still get epic feats like automatic quicken, right?
OOC-well for that matter he could just ride on my sword, that's about 15' ;)
OOC - That's what SHE said!  But, otherwise, that works for me, if you guys are willing.

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Re: Need Help Pulling Punches
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2009, 12:38:18 PM »
Io7V can be dangerous if mis-used. The final veil is useful to get immunity to all spells... but an optimized character can walk through it and hit you with his stick without breaking a sweat.
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