Author Topic: What Counts as "Longbow"?  (Read 9961 times)

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Sinfire Titan

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2009, 01:59:07 AM »
Kevin: Get the aptitude quality from the Bo9S applied to your bow. Then it gets the benefit of either WF feat, without needing to shift between types. As an added bonus, if the WF is keyed to that specific type of bow, you end up with an additional +1.


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kevin_video

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2009, 02:03:34 AM »
Kevin: Get the aptitude quality from the Bo9S applied to your bow. Then it gets the benefit of either WF feat, without needing to shift between types. As an added bonus, if the WF is keyed to that specific type of bow, you end up with an additional +1.
Sorry, where?
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Bozwevial

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2009, 02:06:10 AM »
Tome of Battle, the Book of Nine Swords.

Don't worry, it doesn't involve ToB mechanics.

kevin_video

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2009, 02:11:53 AM »
Tome of Battle, the Book of Nine Swords.

Don't worry, it doesn't involve ToB mechanics.
Okay, I've got that book. I've just never seen it abbreviated like that before. I almost thought maybe it was typed fast, and was meant to be BoED (Book of Exalted Deeds). We've got a Warblade in the group, so I'm sure we'll be fine with this.

Reading over it, it's going to be expensive (changing it into a +3 weapon), but at least I won't have anymore of a headache.
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Bozwevial

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2009, 02:14:23 AM »
...Wow, this discussion was literally that easy to solve?

Seriously, am I the only one that finds it that amusing? This whole argument about composite bows, proficiencies, and the like averted because of the freaking aptitude weapon? Next time, we suggest that first. :P

As a disclaimer, I had forgotten it too.

kevin_video

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2009, 02:18:12 AM »
...Wow, this discussion was literally that easy to solve?

Seriously, am I the only one that finds it that amusing? This whole argument about composite bows, proficiencies, and the like averted because of the freaking aptitude weapon? Next time, we suggest that first. :P

As a disclaimer, I had forgotten it too.
I didn't even know it existed. It wasn't in the Magic Compendium, and that's the book our group uses the most. Truth be told, it's going to take me a long, LONG time to save up the 10k needed to upgrade my bow. This also kills any chance I had at trying to get better armour than a chainshirt (unless our party decides to keep the +2 studded leather instead of selling it because we're so desperate for gold), raptor arrows, or upgrading my bow with +3 Splitting. Needless to say this is going to suck for me.
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Bozwevial

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2009, 02:18:57 AM »
I know, it's a bit obscure. I'm just surprised it didn't come up in the discussions earlier.

Edit: Unless you're dead set on the Weapon Focus line, why not delay the aptitude enhancement until later? Splitting is nice, but what are you looking at on the Weapon Focus line that's so tempting?

sendmeanewid

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2009, 02:56:19 AM »
I know, it's a bit obscure. I'm just surprised it didn't come up in the discussions earlier.

Ahem... *cough*

If that isn't enough to convince him, Unearthed Arcana has rules for Weapon Groups which may apply in this situation.  And if that doesn't work, you'll have to save up to apply the Aptitude property (Tome of Battle),


The fundamental problem, though, as extensively discussed already, will be solved neither by feats or weapon enhancements.

kevin_video

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2009, 02:57:54 AM »
I know, it's a bit obscure. I'm just surprised it didn't come up in the discussions earlier.

Ahem... *cough*

If that isn't enough to convince him, Unearthed Arcana has rules for Weapon Groups which may apply in this situation.  And if that doesn't work, you'll have to save up to apply the Aptitude property (Tome of Battle),

The fundamental problem, though, as extensively discussed already, will be solved neither by feats or weapon enhancements.
Whoops. Sorry about that sendmeanewid. I just saw the weapons groups thing, and kind of blew past the rest of it.
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Bozwevial

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2009, 02:59:14 AM »
Well, evidently it slipped by everyone else too, given that no one mentioned the property again.

And I'm assuming the fundamental problem you refer to is the DM himself, since I see no reason the aptitude enhancement will not work here.

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2009, 06:09:10 AM »
I know, it's a bit obscure. I'm just surprised it didn't come up in the discussions earlier.

Ahem... *cough*

If that isn't enough to convince him, Unearthed Arcana has rules for Weapon Groups which may apply in this situation.  And if that doesn't work, you'll have to save up to apply the Aptitude property (Tome of Battle),


The fundamental problem, though, as extensively discussed already, will be solved neither by feats or weapon enhancements.


I believe the reason no one had mentioned it again until I just did was because someone cast Obscuring Mist on that portion of your post.


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kevin_video

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2009, 01:33:19 AM »
Well, talked the DM, and he's quite impressed by my taking the Weapon Aptitude. He said it's the perfect ability for the bow that I have. The problem I've got now, after talking to him, is my character is quite literally a gold sink. I'd be worth a ridiculous amount of gold for all the items I have, but I'd still be worthless.
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Prime32

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2009, 06:36:30 AM »
Well, talked the DM, and he's quite impressed by my taking the Weapon Aptitude. He said it's the perfect ability for the bow that I have. The problem I've got now, after talking to him, is my character is quite literally a gold sink. I'd be worth a ridiculous amount of gold for all the items I have, but I'd still be worthless.
Um, how many feats do you have for that bow? Is it worth giving up +3 attack/damage for Weapon Focus? If its for PrC prereqs, the class's abilities probably aren't limited to bows you have Weapon Focus in.

Why not just take Knowledge Devotion? :p
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kevin_video

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2009, 12:48:01 PM »
I have 0 feats for the bow. I wasn't allowed to take any. Now that I can, I'll be taking three (Focus, Specialization, Mastery - Piercing) for a +3/+4 bonus. I'm not giving up +3 attack/damage for the bow as I never had the capability anyways. I'd have to scrap the whole bow, and start over again to get it. It's because I got screwed out of a proper +2 in the first place. But yes, the class abilities would be limited. I guarantee it.

Isn't Knowledge Devotion a Domain feat, and wouldn't that require me to be a cleric?
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Irthos Levethix

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2009, 02:43:13 PM »
I'm AFB, but iirc its a feat anyone can take.  Clerics with the Knowledge domain can drop something to get it instead of burning a feat, but you don't have to be a cleric to get it.  The feat allows you to make a Knowledge(whatever) check against enemies to gain a bonus on attack and damage rolls on them.  I don't remember the table at all, except that a roll of 35+ gives you a +5 bonus.  Its cool.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 02:45:37 PM by Irthos Levethix »
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kevin_video

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2009, 02:49:45 PM »
I'm AFB, but iirc its a feat anyone can take.  Clerics with the Knowledge domain can drop something to get it instead of burning a feat, but you don't have to be a cleric to get it.  The feat allows you to make a Knowledge(whatever) check against enemies to gain a bonus on attack and damage rolls on them.  I don't remember the table at all, except that a roll of 35+ gives you a +5 bonus.  Its cool.
So all those Knowledge: The planes, Knowledge: Nature, and all those would finally be worth more than "You get to know two things about this the thing you're fighting." I might just tell our Dragon Adept to take it. He gained all Knowledges as a class skill when he went up a level. He's got an automatic +6 to all of them with his Int bonus.
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Irthos Levethix

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2009, 02:58:04 PM »
Yep.  Also, the skill trick Collector of Stories goes quite well with Knowledge Devotion.  I dont know what the Mystic Ranger is, don't you have several knowledge skills already?  Nature is a big one, do you get Dungeoneering?  That covers abberations, too.  I think even the lowest rolls on the Know Dev table gives you a +1/+1, so its kind of awesome for everybody.  Not that every build should have it in there, but it is pretty sweet.


Just a disclaimer - I'm not a very good optimizer, by these boards' standards... I'd rank myself a 4.3 out of 10 or something.  I just know a few random bits here and there :)  So if someone else gives you different/better advice, ya know, take what I say with a grain of salt.  (Or a shaker of salt, whatever)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 03:00:35 PM by Irthos Levethix »
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kevin_video

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2009, 03:04:33 PM »
Yep.  Also, the skill trick Collector of Stories goes quite well with Knowledge Devotion.  I dont know what the Mystic Ranger is, don't you have several knowledge skills already?  Nature is a big one, do you get Dungeoneering?  That covers abberations, too.  I think even the lowest rolls on the Know Dev table gives you a +1/+1, so its kind of awesome for everybody.  Not that every build should have it in there, but it is pretty sweet.
Mystic Ranger is the same as the regular Ranger, except I also get Spellcraft as a skill. I have no levels in Knowledge: Dungeoneering, but I think I'll definitely start putting some into it. Especially since we've fought aberrations before.
Yeah, just read it. At 36+ it's +5. lol Just read Collector of stories too. That's a +5 bonus to skill checks. Nice. So no matter what, you'll automatically get a +1 to hit and damage. I'm definitely telling the dragon adept about this tonight. Especially if he's going to be taking additional levels in rogue. The problem with be his legacy armour robbing him of skill points each level. :banghead
And considering the bonus I get from all of that, it'd actually be better for me to take those two, take that level of human paragon like I was originally going to be (after I took a level as a half-elf paragon), and just go nuts. Now I know what feats to take when I get my two bonus ones for the two paragons.
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Irthos Levethix

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2009, 03:11:07 PM »
See, thats why I always try to have at least 1 point into most knowledges, so you can make that check.  Sometimes you luck out with a good roll, but at the very least you can try.  Look at the entries in the PHB, for the knowledges skills, on what creature types each identifies.  Religion for undead, Planes for outsiders, Arcana for Constructs and Dragons, Nature for a bunch of shit, Dungeoneering for freaky monsters.  Local, I think, for humanoids.

Damn, its been like 3 years since I've actively played, I'm suprised I remember some of this lol.

Good luck in your game, man.  I've been following your threads, and I'd be hard pressed to not murder that DM.
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Johannixx

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Re: What Counts as "Longbow"?
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2009, 03:41:59 PM »
Your DM is a douchebag.  Ask him if he requires a separate proficiency for the Winchester Model 70 in .223 and .458 WinMag.  Same gun, different cartridge.