Author Topic: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook  (Read 1202185 times)

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #280 on: May 29, 2009, 01:44:19 PM »
I believe you can get arcane CL 5 at level 5 provided you take the feats Magical Training and Practiced Spellcaster.  You'll only have cantrips, but they'll be decently caster leveled cantrips.
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AfterCrescent

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #281 on: May 29, 2009, 01:53:29 PM »
Maybe. It does let you cast cantrips as a sorcerer or wizard, but it doesn't specify any CL... Any CL 1 sorcerer or wizard gets first level spells, so I could see an argument against it as easily as I could see one for it. Not bad, though.

Practiced Spellcaster wouldn't work since you don't actually have levels in Sorcerer or Wizard, so they won't stack without houseruling.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #282 on: May 29, 2009, 02:44:48 PM »
Maybe. It does let you cast cantrips as a sorcerer or wizard, but it doesn't specify any CL... Any CL 1 sorcerer or wizard gets first level spells, so I could see an argument against it as easily as I could see one for it. Not bad, though.

Practiced Spellcaster wouldn't work since you don't actually have levels in Sorcerer or Wizard, so they won't stack without houseruling.
"Thereafter, you have an arcane spell failure  chance  if  you  wear  armor  and are treated as a sorcerer or wizard of your arcane spellcaster level (minimum 1st) for the purpose of determining level-based variables of the spells you cast."

Seems to imply that your CL is one from magical training.
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Emy

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #283 on: May 29, 2009, 02:46:26 PM »
Nope. Anyspell would still be an divine spell. Classes that advance divine casting =/= classes that advance arcane casting. Even if you can get a divine spell to be cast as an arcane, it's still not getting you an arcane caster level. I don't see a way to do this, and, frankly, it wouldn't be worth it with the amount of loops you'd have to jump through and shady interpretations you'd need to slip past your DM.

Damn. Alternative Source Spell would still work, but at that point, I'd be using 3 feats on a Familiar, and for a cleric, those 3 feats could just as easily be Persistent Spell, DMM: Persist, and Extra Turning. Or prestige class prerequisites. Or whatever else.

I don't see where classes that advance casting come into it, but I'm starting to agree with your assesment of "wouldn't be worth it".

AfterCrescent

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #284 on: May 29, 2009, 03:01:45 PM »
"Thereafter, you have an arcane spell failure  chance  if  you  wear  armor  and are treated as a sorcerer or wizard of your arcane spellcaster level (minimum 1st) for the purpose of determining level-based variables of the spells you cast."

Seems to imply that your CL is one from magical training.
I was going off an online source since I'm at work. If that's what it says, then yes, it gives you a CL 1. Practiced Spellcaster still wouldn't work, I believe.

Damn. Alternative Source Spell would still work, but at that point, I'd be using 3 feats on a Familiar, and for a cleric, those 3 feats could just as easily be Persistent Spell, DMM: Persist, and Extra Turning. Or prestige class prerequisites. Or whatever else.
Not to mention you lose CL due to having levels in non-cleric arcane caster. Unless you are using Magical Training, and thus don't have CL 3...

Quote
I don't see where classes that advance casting come into it, but I'm starting to agree with your assesment of "wouldn't be worth it".
I'm saying that even if you get the ability to cast divine spells as arcane spells, you don't necessarily have an arcane caster level. That's why Southern Magician doesn't work. You have to have an arcane caster level in order to get the feat, not just be able to have divine spells cast as if they were arcane. Just like you have to have a class for Practiced Spellcaster to function, Magical Training won't do it.
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Emy

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #285 on: May 29, 2009, 03:42:14 PM »
I'm saying that even if you get the ability to cast divine spells as arcane spells, you don't necessarily have an arcane caster level. That's why Southern Magician doesn't work. You have to have an arcane caster level in order to get the feat, not just be able to have divine spells cast as if they were arcane. Just like you have to have a class for Practiced Spellcaster to function, Magical Training won't do it.

For a concrete example, this is what I meant when I said "using 3 feats on a familiar".

Human Cleric 3
Domain: Community
Human bonus feat: Alternative Source Spell
Level 1 feat: Magical Training
Level 3 feat: Obtain Familiar

Qualification for Obtain Familiar: Community domain spell-like ability is at caster level 3. This qualifies the cleric for Obtain Familiar (so sayeth Complete Arcane, though see the caveat in my previous post about the word "instead").

Familiar advancement: With Alternative Source Spell, a cleric spell from a cleric slot can be cast as an arcane spell. Cleric is therefore a class that "allow you to cast arcane spells" and counts for familiar advancement according to the Obtain Familiar feat. (This bit could probably use some work.)

I'm not seeing where you need an arcane caster level here.

I must be missing your point somehow. :(

AfterCrescent

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #286 on: May 29, 2009, 04:22:03 PM »
Okay, so skipping the fact that that's terrible. It just doesn't work. Cleric is not a class that "allow you to cast arcane spells."  It doesn't work.  The feat lets you prepare the spells as arcane spells and vice versa. It lets you avoid, or fall victim to, ASF. It lets you avoid the material component for Identify or some-such. However, and this is the big part, the source of the spell doesn't change. It's still coming from your cleric class. And the class is not allowing you to cast arcane spells.
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Prophet

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #287 on: June 01, 2009, 02:31:14 PM »
Hi
in which book are the "defending spikes +1" to be found?

Agita

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #288 on: June 01, 2009, 02:34:22 PM »
Hi
in which book are the "defending spikes +1" to be found?
In the DMG+PHB. Just add the Defending property to your armor spikes.
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #289 on: June 02, 2009, 05:18:41 PM »
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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AfterCrescent

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #290 on: June 02, 2009, 05:22:15 PM »
Heh, thanks Bowen. I was already in the process of updating it when you posted. :D
Link's up in the ACF feature.
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #291 on: June 02, 2009, 05:24:10 PM »
By the way, something I caught in the Feats section: IIRC it's Tomb-Tainted Soul, not Tome-Tainted Soul ;)

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AfterCrescent

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #292 on: June 02, 2009, 05:48:05 PM »
Your face is a Tome-Tainted Soul. :P

But thanks for catching that typo.
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #293 on: June 02, 2009, 05:50:16 PM »
Hehe, just a minor pet peeve. Reminds me of 'Tomb of Battle/Magic' posts by noobs :P

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AfterCrescent

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #294 on: June 02, 2009, 05:51:50 PM »
I actually purposefully mispronounce the words Tomb and Tome around BimR & Shewolf. ALWAYS.  It's hilarious how much it bothers them. :D
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #295 on: June 02, 2009, 05:54:48 PM »
Bwahaha :lmao
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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AfterCrescent

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #296 on: June 03, 2009, 12:15:54 PM »
So how many people would like an alternate rating system of Domains based on spells granted?

Also, if so, what are things I'd need to keep in mind besides
  • Already being on the cleric list
  • Alignment restrictions, if any
  • Value as a spontaneous spell (via feat or ACF)
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Rebel7284

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #297 on: June 03, 2009, 01:31:09 PM »
I would find such ratings quite useful.  Other things to keep in mind are relative level i guess for domains that give spells early/late.
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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #298 on: June 13, 2009, 08:53:27 PM »
UPDATE:
I've started evaluating domains by spells. The PHB is done for now. I'd like some feedback on the evaluations. Things you'd like to see evaluated or addressed, if any. I'm not using the color system for this area because it depends on low level vs high level sometimes...
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ninjarabbit

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Re: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
« Reply #299 on: June 13, 2009, 09:31:50 PM »
In core the only domains that have good spell lists are travel and trickery. Everything else is either average-at-best or only has one or two good spells with the rest not being worthwhile to a cleric.