no base classes?

[Surreal]

So here's a random thing I'm trying to do: create a build that winds up with no base classes. I think I did this a while ago back on 339 but my search-fu is weak.

Here's my stab at it so far, using paladin and a weird trick stacking shadowbane inquisitor so that I get a "virtual" paladin 11 which lets me trade the levels away with no leftover.

Paladin 5/Dark Hunter 3/Shadowbane Inquisitor 10... from here take two blackguard and trade in all your paladin levels

result: Blackguard 7/Dark Hunter 3/Shadowbane Inquisitor 10
- full BAB, Cha to saves, sneak 7d6, 4th level blackguard spells, 9 smites/day, fiendish servant and undead companion, debuffing despair, etc.

- you retain your Shadowbane Inquisitor abilities, and those levels count as fallen paladin for extra blackguard abilities
- Dark Hunter was to get sneak attack... can anyone else find a class that grants sneak attack that a paladin can easily qualify for? this one burns a lot of skill points and feats

edit: and yes I am aware of the Defiant from Planar Handbook. That's too easy.

[cru]

Another option is qualification for PrC using monster HD. Or is that out of scope?

[Omen of Peace]

I think someone did similar stuff with Ur-Priest and PHB2-rebuilding...

My take: any monster that can reach ECL 20 with LA+HD.
(I know, I'm out...)

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Survivor + retraining?

I think that works.

[Anklebite]

half orc halforc paragon3 orc paragon3 FB10 bear warrior4? not sure if legal, just slapped it together without checking books.

[woodenbandman]

Black Ethergaunt 

[archangel.arcanis]

i don't think you retain your Shadowbane abilities since you would no longer meet the requirements of the PrC.

[Kaelik]

You could grab a bunch of Paragon classes.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Arg, got ninja'ed since coming home from work

Yup Paragon classes, template classes, and racial HD. No retraining cheese required (because its yucky and controversial)

I thought about DM'ing a No-Base-Class Campaign once 

[woodenbandman]

But how do you get Arcane spells? Best way I can think is to get up to 5th level, take Suel Archanamach, take Prestige Bard, then Sublime Chord, then Virtuoso.

[Surreal]

Hmm, I guess in my mind I was trying to do it without monster classes or racial paragons...

Ugh, and I don't even want to think about that bunk with the retraining. Trading away your base classes so you self qualify for your PrCs is just wrong and a twisting of the rules in my opinion.

i don't think you retain your Shadowbane abilities since you would no longer meet the requirements of the PrC.

There's a class feature tucked away at the very beginning called "absolute conviction" which says you keep your class abilities if you ever change your alignment. The only thing worse than becoming an evil mofo is becoming a self-righteous evil mofo

[altpersona]

only four entries that i can think of for a a no base class character..

Paladin/blackgaurd (idk of another trade in class like BG)
paragons   (six lvl max)
bloodlines (three lvl max)
racial HD (as many hd as you want, depending)

if racial HD = to easy
blood lines = to cheesy
paragons = lead to melee/rage'r
then BG is all thats left for most builds.

half orc HOpar3/OrcPara3/BGx/Xx works as long as you pick up Hide as a class skill early on as prereq for BG... the character will have never had a base class lvl, even one that was traded in... of course the BG part is completley optional.

and the whole thing is suboptimal, its melee, its less than full casting... it can be full BAB... your an orc..

[archangel.arcanis]

that doesn't help the fact that you don't have turn undead or detect evil anymore.

[Khorus]

Defiant out of planar handbook? Trade cleric levels out, then ur priest.

[Tshern]

Defiant out of planar handbook? Trade cleric levels out, then ur priest.

Dealt with in the first post.

[bitznarf]

I seem to recall some way to swap classes somewhere in ToM, some of the shadow casting stuff, but I forget what.

[jameswilliamogle]

I seem to recall some way to swap classes somewhere in ToM, some of the shadow casting stuff, but I forget what.

It replaces existing spellcasting levels with Shadowcaster (thus, each shadowcasting level essentially gives you two levels and substracts one casting).  Its specific for Sorcerer or Wizard casting getting replaced, and specifies Shadowcaster adding.

Noctumancer can get weird with this; since it advances both Shadowcasting and Spellcasting, you end up staying "neutral" w.r.t. your spellcasting, and advancing 2 levels w/ shadowcasting...  Still end up with a base class, though.  It also takes a lose interpretation of the "Creeping Darkness" variant mentioned above, as your DM has to allow effective shadowcaster levels replace existing classes...  My DMs wouldn't go for it.  If they allow that, then Shadowsmith might be able to be advanced rather than Shadowcaster, then there's options.

The Paladin to Blackguard trick is slick; I like it the best thus far.

[sonofzeal]

Can the Survivor PrC be taken at level 1?

[altpersona]

nope, at least i dont think so.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Requirement is "Base Save Bonus: Highest base save bonus must be lower than character level."

So you can't qualify at level 0, but can as commoner1.  I believe that retraining would then let you exchange your first commoner level for survivor, though.