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Author Topic: Samurai Poll  (Read 66579 times)
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bhu
Organ Grinder
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Posts: 6783


Convincing the rich whale fat enemas are healthy


« on: March 28, 2009, 07:14:36 AM »

I'm thinking of making a Samurai remake soon so I wanted to do a bit of a poll.

Pros: I'd like to know what (if anything) people like about the class, and what they'd like me to keep in the remake.

Cons: What do you hate about the class, and would like to see left out?

Flavor: Would you prefer a pure fantasy class with vaguely oriental flavor as it is now?  Or something closer to the reality?  Do you still want it to be a heavily armored melee fighter wielding two weapons that intimidates opponents?

Updated 10/25/10

Ki Abilities

Ashigaru Class Variant

Backup Archer PrC

Jujutsu, Taijutsu, and Te

Kagemusha PrC

Onna-Bugeisha Class Variant

Pechin Class Variant

Ronin PrC

Saburai PrC

Te

Teppo-Ka PrC

Tsujigiri PrC

Yojimbo PrC

Samurai 2

Ashigaru 2

Onna-Bugeisha 2

Pechin 2

Sohei

Yamabushi

SAMURAI


   
” The entire country will soon be in the hands of your master, Lord Ieyasu. If this is so, the men who served him will no doubt hope to become daimyo by his appointment. You should know that if such feelings arise, they are inevitably the beginning of the end of one's fortunes in the Way of the Warrior. Being affected by the avarice for office and rank, or wanting to become a daimyo and being eager for such things ... will not one then begin to value his life? And how can a man commit acts of martial valor if he values his life? A man who has been born into the house of a warrior and yet places no loyalty in his heart and thinks only of the fortune of his position will be flattering on the surface and construct schemes in his heart, will forsake righteousness and not reflect on his shame, and will stain the warrior's name of his household to later generations. This is truly regrettable.”

 The Samurai is a warrior noble who is supposed to accept the concept that his only purpose in life is dying in service to his Lord, or for his own honor.  To accept that keeping to the ideals of honor are more important than his own life or happiness.  There are many who only pay lip service to this ideal, as in any other profession in life.  They make things difficult for those who do follow the Way.  

You will be expected to be both a powerful warrior, and an accomplished poet or artisan.  You will be expected to lead men into battle, and in turn be led by your Lord who may ask you to give your life whenever he pleases.  And if your Lord is an evil and dishonorable man, following his orders to your death is still preferable in the eyes of some to disobeying him and bringing dishonor to yourself.  But an evil Lord will eventually put you in the position that leads to your being dishonored regardless of what you do.  At that point you may end your life, or become a Ronin.  The life of a Ronin will be hard.  Your old master may want you dead, your friends and relatives may disown you for the stigma of your dishonor, and finding a new Lord will be next to impossible.  Since the only marketable skill you know is killing, you will likely have to become a mercenary or assassin for money.  

Welcome to Hell.

MAKING A SAMURAI
 If you wish to play a Samurai from the earlier days, focus on archery and horsemanship, because you’ll be called upon to use it quite often.  If playing a character from the Samurai’s later days you’ll need to use a sword (or a Naginata if female).  While males of the Samurai class are expected to be warriors first, and nobility second, it is the reverse for women.  They are taught enough to defend the household, and nothing more.  If they are better fighters than their husband they often keep this secret so as not to shame him.  Later Samurai will always specialize in some particular talent to show they are more than just warriors.
 Abilities: Since the Samurai is a warrior, your physical stats are expected to be good.  As a Noble your mental stats will be expected to be good.  Earlier Samurai are horse archers and will need Dexterity.  Later Samurai who are expected to be warrior-poets will need Wisdom and Charisma to deal with other members of the Nobility.  Many of your Ki Pool abilities will be based on your mental stats as well.
 Races: Only civilized races who have a tendency towards a Lawful alignment produce many Samurai.  Members of races who aren’t commonly Lawful are rarely accepted for training, and openly Chaotic races have no chance.
 Alignment: Samurai are required to be Lawful.  Most are Lawful Neutral, particularly if they follow the Code of Bushido.  Lawful Good Samurai are less common, and many end up becoming Ronin, unable to reconcile their duties to their Lord with what they believe to be right.  Lawful Evil Samurai are monsters, murdering anything in their path, and manipulating the system to protect themselves.
 Starting Gold: Same as a Fighter.
 Starting Age: Same as a Fighter.

Class Skills
 The Samurai's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Geography, History, Local, Nobility & Royalty, War)(Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skills Per Day at 1st Level : (4 + int)x4
Skills Per Day at Each Additional Level : 4 + int

Hit Dice: d10

   BAB  Fort    Ref    Will  Abilities
1. +1    +2     +0     +2    Military Training, Ki Pool, Ki Abilities
2. +2    +3     +0     +3    Iron Will
3. +3    +3     +1     +3    Imposing Presence (+4 Intimidate Checks)
4. +4    +4     +1     +4    Military Training
5. +5    +4     +1     +4    Iron Will
6. +6    +5     +2     +5    Imposing Presence (Staredown)
7. +7    +5     +2     +5    Military Training
8. +8    +6     +2     +6    Iron Will
9. +9    +6     +3     +6    Imposing Presence (Improved Staredown)
10.+10   +7     +3     +7    Military Training
11.+11   +7     +3     +7    Iron Will
12.+12   +8     +4     +8    Imposing Presence (Imposing Strike)
13.+13   +8     +4     +8    Military Training
14.+14   +9     +4     +9    Iron Will
15.+15   +9     +5     +9    Imposing Presence (Frightful Presence)
16.+16   +10    +5     +10   Military Training
17.+17   +10    +5     +10   Iron Will
18.+18   +11    +6     +11   Imposing Presence (Improved Frightful Presence)
19.+19   +11    +6     +11   Military Training
20.+20   +12    +6     +12   Daimyo


Weapon Proficiencies: Samurai are proficient in all Simple and Martial Weapons, and one Exotic Weapon (please see Oriental Adventures for stats of oriental simple/martial/exotic weapons).  They are proficient with all armor, and light and heavy shields, but not tower shields.  
 
Ki Pool (Su): At 1st level the Samurai first begins to learn to channel his Ki to perform acts he would be otherwise unable to do.  He may use his Ki a number of times per day equal to either his Charisma or Wisdom Modifier (whichever is greater) plus once more per day for each level of Samurai he takes.

Ki Abilities (Ex): By tapping the power of his Ki a trained Samurai can enhance his abilities in battle, in art, and in life.  A Samurai learns one new use for his Ki Pool at each level if he meets the prerequisites.  If a Samurai multi classes into a PrC that allows him to continue to learn Ki Abilities, he may still choose Ki Abilities from the Samurai Class list if he meets the prerequisites.  At 1st level he may expend up to 1 daily use of his Ki Abilities per round.  This increases to twice per round at level 6, and 3 times per round at level 13.  Ki abilities are skills the Samurai has trained to perfection, and despite being more than natural, they are not vulnerable to Antimagic Fields and as such are Exceptional Abilities unless it is noted otherwise.

Military Training (Ex):  The Samurai is a military occupation primarily, and players can receive training at various fighting styles as long as they remain Samurai.  It gives you Bonus Feats at levels 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, and 19 from the following list (you must still meet prerequisites, your Samurai Levels are considered levels in Fighter for purposes of acquiring Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and related Feats): Advanced Kashima Shinto-ryu*, Advanced Ona-ha Itto Ryu*, Advanced Yagu Shinkage Ryu*, Canny Opportunist, Cavalry Charger, Choke Hold, Combat Expertise, Combat intuition, Combat Reflexes, Defensive Sweep, Earth's Embrace, Far Shot, Greater Two-Weapon Defense, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Initiative, Improved Mounted Archery, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Quick Cut*, Improved Ride-By Attack*, Improved Trip, Improved Two-Weapon Defense, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Kashima Shinto-ryu*, Kashima Shinto-ryu Mastery*, Kiai Shout, Martial Throw, Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Ona-ha Itto Ryu*, Ona-ha Itto Ryu Mastery*, Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, Power Critical, Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Quick Cut*, Quick Draw, Prone Attack, Ride-By Attack, Sharp-Shooting, Short Haft*, Spirited Charge, Stand Still, Sweep*, Trample, Two-Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Yagu Shinkage Ryu*, Yagu Shinkage Ryu Mastery*

*New Feats detailed below.


Iron Will (Ex): At 2nd level the Samurai gains Iron Will as a Bonus Feat.

At 5th level the Samurai gains Indomitable Soul as a Bonus Feat (see PHB II).

At 8th level gains Mind over Matter.  Once per round when targeted by an effect that requires a Fortitude or Reflex Saving Throw, the Samurai may opt to use a Willpower Save instead.

At 11th level the Samurai can violate his alignment if ordered to.  If his Lord commands him to commit an act his alignment would not normally allow him to perform, and disobeying him would violate the Code of Bushido, then he Samurai can make a Willpower Save (DC 20) to avoid his alignment changing, and any negative effects for violating his alignment.  He must seek to repent afterwards, and qualify for an Atonement spell, or after 1 week he takes the full brunt of violating his alignment.

At 14th level the Samurai gains a +4 Resistance Bonus on Willpower Saves against Mind-Affecting Effects.  If a Mind-Affecting Effect would cause him to disobey his Lord or violate the tenets of Bushido at any time (for example a Charm or Compulsion spell was cast on him, and he was ordered to commit an act that either Lord or Bushido would object to) he gains a second Saving Throw to escape the effect.

At 17th level the Samurai is immune to Fear and Morale based penalties.

Imposing Presence (Su): At 3rd level you gain a +4 Competence Bonus on intimidation Checks.

At 6th level you gain the ability to Stare Down Foes, and you can Demoralize all opponents within 30’ with a successful Intimidate Check as a Move Action.  

At 9th level you gain Improved Staredown, and can Demoralize opponents as a Swift Action instead of a Move Action.

At 12th level any opponent you successfully confirm a critical hit against is automatically Demoralized as if he had failed an opposed check against your Intimidate.

At 15th level you gain the ability to terrify opponents simply by drawing your sword.  Whenever you draw your weapon opponents within 30’ must make a Willpower Save (Save DC is 10 plus half level plus Charisma Modifier) or become Frightened for 4d6 rounds (if they have 4 or fewer hit dice) or Shaken for 4d6 rounds if they have more than 5 hit dice, but less than your hit dice.    If the Saving Throw is successful hey are immune to this Samurai’s Frightful Presence for 24 hours.

At 18th level your Frightful Presence improves.  Opponents must save when you draw your sword or you attack, and if they have less Hit Dice than you they are Panicked instead of Frightened or Shaken.

Daimyo (Ex): At 20th level the Samurai has mastered his command of himself and the world around him.  He may not be a leader in the literal sense of the word (i.e. he may not have officially reached Daimyo status), but he is a leader of men nonetheless.  Once per round as a Swift Action he may grant himself or one Ally within 60' the ability to reroll a failed roll.  If it is an Ally, he may use the Samurai's bonus for he roll if it would be higher, and if it is the Samurai himself he may use the Bonus of any Ally within 60' if it would be higher. This can be used (3 plus Charisma Modifier) times per day.  If you have the Leadership Feat your Leadership score increases by an amount equal to your Charisma Modifier.

PLAYING A SAMURAI
 The Code of Bushido has 7 virtues: Rectitude (a Samurai is expected to conform to the law and rules for moral conduct, and uphold integrity and justice), Courage (he is expected to risk his life in battle when it is possible to achieve something of worth, even if it means his death), Benevolence (he is expected to show mercy), Respect (he is to treat others deserving of respect with such, particularly his lord), Honesty (he must not lie or be deceitful), Honor (he is expected to behave in a dignified manner), and Loyalty (he must do as his lord commands regardless of his personal feelings on the matter).  His honor and his loyalty to his Lord are supposed to mean more to him than his own life, or the lives of others.  In practice, any truly good or evil Samurai finds it difficult to live up to these ideals.  Good Samurai chafe at being given orders to commit evil acts just as much as evil samurai dislike being ordered to perform good acts.  Despite being sworn to a life of honesty, many have a pretty good Bluff skill.
 Religion:  In real life Samurai followed Bushido, and to an extent Zen Buddhism.  In DnD this means they are spiritual, but they don’t really worship Gods per se (though some may still practice the old Shinto religion).
 Other Classes: The way a Samurai relates to other classes depends on several things.  The first being, are they foreigners?  If so they are subject to immediate distrust, and possible open hostility.  They will never be truly accepted by all, no matter how often they prove themselves.  If they aren’t foreigners the question is “What is their station relevant to mine?”  If of a lower station the Samurai can pretty much do anything they like, including openly murdering them if they are not well liked (or their Lord will back them up).  If of a higher station the Samurai is almost required to be deferential, as he can be asked to kill himself if he is considered to have disgraced himself too much.
 Combat:  There are several combat styles open to Samurai.  The traditional one is an armored archer on horseback, which eventually gave way to an armored man with a sword.  Women of Samurai households were taught knife and spear fighting, and many male Samurai learned polearms as well.  Many learned exotic fighting styles or weapons as a means of gaining an advantage over opponents by using a weapon or form which wasn’t well known.
 Advancement: How a Samurai advances depends entirely on the whims of his Lord in theory.  A Daimyo could order a Samurai to take a specific position, and if he ever wishes to have a better position (or at least retain what he has), he’d better do it well.  Many Lords will be pragmatic enough to put a Samurai where his strengths will be best used, but particularly evil nobles will use promotion to rid themselves of honest men.

SAMURAI IN THE WORLD
“One who is samurai must, before all things, keep constantly in mind, by day and by night....that he has to die”.
 In real life the Samurai were warriors hired by the nobility to fight their battles for them.  They began as little more than paid mercenaries known as Saburai (meaning “those who serve”), and were thought of as barbarians by their condescending masters.  Eventually the nobility began to rely on them more and more, and the Samurai evolved into a class of warrior nobility themselves.  While they were expected to live their life by the ideals of the Bushido code (although that name wasn’t used until late in their existence), and were even socially ostracized if it was perceived that they hadn’t, the demands of their position meant that living up to that ideal would be extraordinarily difficult.  A Samurai was expected to be benevolent and show mercy, but the law stated that he could simply kill anyone of a lower station who insulted him.  He was also expected to commit ritual suicide if his honor had been tarnished beyond repair or he had lost a battle and would have to surrender, but there are many writings of the time suggesting that the Samurai were no less pragmatic than any other warrior on a battlefield.  Theirs was a twisted life where their lord could order them to die, and they would be expected to comply.  Failing to do so meant his family would suffer along with him.
 Daily Life: You will always be busy.  When you aren’t training men under you to wield a sword, you are learning to refine your own skills under a teacher better than you, or honing your ability at music or poetry to better your social life in some manner other than killing.  At any moment your Lord can ask you to perform some task, and you must hop to it, and hope the task is actually achievable.  The easiest way for enemies to get rid of you is to dishonor you, or cause you to fall from favor,  Always keep your eyes open, and trust no one.
 Notables:
 Organizations: The Samurai are members of the middle and upper classes, and richer ones own large farms or command armies for the government.  All Samurai belong to a military organization of one clan or another.  By taking the Leadership Feat and doing well in battle a PC could open his own swordsmanship school, or be promoted to General someday.

NPC Reaction
 Samurai tend to make people nervous, particularly if they are peasants.  They’re allowed to kill any peasant who insults them, and some Samurai are notoriously easy to insult (i.e. Lawful Evil).   Nobles above them aren’t supposed to have to fear the Samurai’s anger, but in practice there’s damn little stopping a determined one from killing a member of the ruling class either if he plans it well.  Other Samurai even tend to regard Samurai they don’t know with distrust, always wondering if they’ll have to kill him at some point.

SAMURAI IN THE GAME
 Roleplaying the old ideal of a Samurai will be difficult as it will ask of players to do things they would normally never do: set aside their own desires.  They will have to follow the orders of their Lord, even if he is a disagreeable stain on the face of humanity, and be polite and respectful while doing so.  Most people roleplay to relieve stress, and Samurai lived highly stressful lives.  The class isn’t for everyone.
 Adaptation: The Samurai is intended for campaigns with oriental flavor, but with some work it can be adapted to different settings.  It’s basically a nobleman warrior, and by using different combat styles and optional class abilities it can be used to mimic fighters from different settings.
 Encounters: PC’s will tend to encounter Samurai as leaders (or embers) of military units, lords of various domains, or perhaps bounty hunters assigned to bring them in for trial (or bring back your head if you aren’t cooperative).  Many also run farms, schools of swordsmanship, or retire to monasteries if their career has been blemished.



EPIC SAMURAI

Hit Die: d10
Skills Points at Each  Level : 4 + int
Ki Pool The Epic Samurai gains 1 additional daily use of his Ki Pool for every Epic Level.  He does not gain new Ki abilities except as Epic Feats.  He also learns one new Ki Ability each level that he knows the prerequisite for.
Bonus Feats: The Epic Samurai gains a Bonus Feat every 3 levels higher than 20th


EX-SAMURAI
If a Samurai's master dies, or he is dismissed from his service for whatever reason (usually disgrace), or he becomes of an Alignment other than lawful (which is likely to cause his dismissal), the Samurai is supposed to commit seppuku.  If he does not, and chooses to live, he can no longer take levels in the Samurai class, and becomes a Ronin (taking levels in the Prestige Class of the same name, or some other class).  If he is accepted as a Samurai again, he can continue to once again take levels in this class.



Short Haft
You are adept at refocusing the reach of your weapon
 Prerequisites: Weapon Proficiency with any Reach Weapon.
 Benefits: Once per round, you may change the reach of your weapon from it's normal Reach to 5 ft. as a Free Action.

Sweep
You are skilled at tripping opponents with your Naginata or Yari.
 Prerequisites: Improved Short Haft, Improved Trip
 Benefits: Whenever you successfully strike your opponent with your Naginata or Yari you immediately get a Trip Attempt as a Free Action.  If the Trip fails your opponent does not get a Trip attempt against you.

Improved Ride-By Attack
You have excelled at attacking masses of infantry on horseback.
 Prerequisites: Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, BAB +12
 Benefits: When mounted and using the Charge Action you may make a separate attack against each opponent within range that you pass.  You may not make more attacks per round than you would normally make with a Full Attack, and you take a -2 on each attack roll.

Quick Cut
You are capable of doing nasty damage if you get the initiative.
 Prerequisites: Quick Draw
 Benefits: On the first combat turn when you draw your sword using the Quick Draw Feat, and if you attack before your opponent, you automatically threaten a critical hit.

Improved Quick Cut
You are capable of disabling an opponent if you get the initiative
 Prerequisites: Quick Cut, Improved Initiative, BAB +10
 Benefits: When using your Quick Cut Feat you gain a Circumstance Bonus to Attack and Critical Confirmation rolls equal to (your initiative total minus theirs), or your Level divided by 5, whichever is greater.


School Feats


Ona-ha Itto Ryu
Even when you are surprised foes find you to still be dangerous.
 Prerequisites: BAB +4, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana), Eyes in the Back of Your Head
 Benefits: Your opponents do not gain the +2 Bonus for Flanking you even if you are Flat-Footed.  If you are attacked in a Surprise Round in which you did not successfully sense the enemy or while Flat-Footed you gain an Attack of Opportunity against that opponent.  However you are still considered Flat-Footed and Denied your Dexterity Bonus to AC until you can act normally on your next turn.


Advanced Ona-ha Itto Ryu
Assassins find you to be a very difficult target...
 Prerequisites: BAB +12, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Ona-ha Itto Ryu
 Benefits: You keep your Dexterity Bonus to AC, even whole Flat-Footed (but not when immobilized).  When making only a single attack with a sword instead of a Full Attack you gain a Circumstance Bonus to Attack and Damage rolls equal to your Wisdom Modifier or your Level divided by 5 (whichever is greater).



Ona-ha Itto Ryu Mastery
You have slain opponents with a single blow.
 Prerequisites: BAB +24, Advanced Ona-ha Itto Ryu, Improved Critical (Katana), Power Critical (Katana)
 Benefits: You may elect to make a single strike with a sword as a Full Attack.  This strike does four times its normal damage.  In other words if you normally do 1d6+2 with your short sword you do 4d6+8 when making this attack.  If you successfully critical while making this strike you apply the critical multiplier as well (i.e. in the case of the short sword you would do 8d6+16).  If you do more than 50 points of damage with this attack (whether it successfully criticals or not) your opponent must make a Fortitude Save (DC is 10 plus half Hit Dice plus Str Modifier) or die immediately.  


Yagyu Shinkage Ryu
Winning must come at any cost.
 Prerequisites: BAB +4, Power Attack, Must be proficient with the following weapons: Katana, Wakizashi, Bo Staff, and Shuriken.
 Benefits: Whenever you perform a Power Attack, you gain a Bonus on Critical Confirmation rolls equal to the penalty you took for the Power Attack Feat.


Advanced Yagyu Shinkage Ryu
One must learn to adapt to and anticipate ones opponent to be a truly great fighter.
 Prerequisites: BAB +12, Combat Expertise, Combat Intuition, Yagyu Shinkage Ryu
 Benefits: The Bonus to attack rolls you get from your Combat Intuition feat increases to +2, and it also applies to damage rolls.  Also, you gain a +2 Circumstance Bonus against any opponent who has missed you at least once in an encounter for the duration of that encounter.


Yagyu Shinkage Ryu Mastery
You have learned to surprise opponents by throwing your sword like a spear.
 Prerequisites: BAB +24, Advanced Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, Brutal Throw, Power Throw
 Benefits:  You may use any sword you are proficient with as a ranged attack weapon with a Range Increment of 10.  In addition, any weapon specific Feats (such as Weapon Focus, Improved Critical,etc.) that you can use with your Katana may also be used with your Wakizashi and the Bo Staff and vice versa.  Whenever you successfully strike a Flat-Footed opponent you may use one of your ki abilities without expending a daily use of your Ki Pool.


Kashima Shinto-ryu
You have learned to strike with the butt of your weapon.
 Prerequisites: BAB +4, Close-Quarters Fighting, Two Weapon Fighting
 Benefits: When wielding a polearm you may strike with the butt of your weapon as though it were a double weapon, doing 1d6 bludgeoning damage.  You may also do bludgeoning damage when wielding a sword by striking with the hilt (which also does 1d6 bludgeoning damage).  


Advanced Kashima Shinto-ryu
You may deliver attacks to weak points by hitting your opponent with the haft of your weapon.
 Prerequisites: BAB +12, Kashima Shinto-ryu, Stunning Fist, Weakening Touch
 Benefits: You may now use the Feats Freezing the Lifeblood, Pain Touch, Stunning Fist, and Weakening Touch by hitting opponents with any bludgeoning weapon (including the hilt of your sword or the haft of a polearm or spear). once you gain access to those Feats.


Kashima Shinto-ryu Mastery
Armor is virtually useless against you as you can always find it's weak points.
 Prerequisites: BAB +24, Advanced Kashima Shinto-ryu, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint
 Benefits: When you successfully Feint in combat, you may opt to deny your target his Armor Bonus to AC instead of his Dex Bonus.



« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 08:28:44 AM by bhu » Logged

Straw_Man
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« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2009, 07:36:07 AM »



Flavor: Would you prefer a pure fantasy class with vaguely oriental flavor as it is now?  Or something closer to the reality?  Do you still want it to be a heavily armored melee fighter wielding two weapons that intimidates opponents?


  NOT! I do like intimidation and the flavour of kiai. But do allow for people who want to two hand bastard sword or do the ridiculous TWF. Musashi did. Real samurai use swords, bows, yari, halberds, if it could kill they used it. Any way to make it that flexible?
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AfterCrescent
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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2009, 08:11:06 AM »

Agreed. Make it flexible. You know how rangers get weapon style? Give samurais armor style, since some were heavy armored fighters and others weren't. That's one idea...

I like the weapon feature of the original 3.0 class. I'd like to see that brought back.
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JaronK
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2009, 09:07:15 AM »

I like the Ancestral Daisho ability of the OA Samurai.  I like the intimidate abilities of the CW Samurai.  That's about it.

Honestly, I think the Warblade does Samurai well enough, since you can just take the Ancestral Relic feat and effectively get Ancestral Daisho, but if you want a non-ToB version, I'd want to see those two abilities in there.  If it's going to be ToB based, then Diamond Mind needs to be in there, along with Stone Dragon.

JaronK
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Sinfire Titan
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2009, 09:09:50 AM »

If it's ToB-based and doesn't feel like Samurai Jack, then you're doing it wrong.
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bhu
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Convincing the rich whale fat enemas are healthy


« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2009, 12:36:09 PM »



Flavor: Would you prefer a pure fantasy class with vaguely oriental flavor as it is now?  Or something closer to the reality?  Do you still want it to be a heavily armored melee fighter wielding two weapons that intimidates opponents?


  NOT! I do like intimidation and the flavour of kiai. But do allow for people who want to two hand bastard sword or do the ridiculous TWF. Musashi did. Real samurai use swords, bows, yari, halberds, if it could kill they used it. Any way to make it that flexible?

Of course Big Grin

Ki Abilities

Improved Point Blank Shot
Prerequisites: Point Blank Shot
Benefits: When using your Point Blank Shot Feat you may expend a daily use of your Ki ability as a Free Action before making the attack roll, and the Bonus from the Feat is equal to your Dexterity Modifier (instead of +1) for the remainder of this round.


Greater Point Blank Shot
Prerequisites: Point Blank Shot, Improved Point Blank Shot
Benefits: When using your Point Blank Shot Feat you may expend a daily use of your Ki ability as a Free Action before making the attack roll, and for the remainder of this round your Ranged attacks do not provoke Attacks of Opportunity.


Greater Precise Shot
Prerequisites: Precise Shot
Benefits: When using your Precise Shot Feat you may expend a daily use of your Ki ability as a Free Action before making the attack roll, and for the remainder of this round your Ranged attacks ignore Shield or Armor Bonuses to AC.


Ultimate Precise Shot
Prerequisites: Precise Shot, Greater Precise Shot
Benefits When using your Precise Shot Feat you may expend a daily use of your Ki ability as a Free Action before making the attack roll, and for the remainder of this round your Ranged attacks automatically threaten a critical if they successfully hit.


Improved Far Shot
Prerequisites: Far Shot
Benefits: When using your Far Feat you may expend a daily use of your Ki ability as a Free Action before making the attack roll, and for the remainder of this round the maximum range of your Ranged attacks are doubled.


Greater Far Shot
Prerequisites: Far Shot, Improved Far Shot
Benefits: When using your Far Shot Feat you may expend a daily use of your Ki ability as a Free Action before making the attack roll, and for the remainder of this round your Ranged attacks do not take to hit penalties based on what range increment your opponent is in.


Improved Mounted Archery
Prerequisites: Mounted Archery
Benefits: When using your Mounted Archery Feat you may expend a daily use of your Ki ability as a Free Action before making the attack roll, and for the remainder of the round you take no attack penalties unless your mount is running, and even then the penalty is only -2.


Greater Mounted Archery
Prerequisites: Mounted Archery, Improved Mounted Archery
Benefits: When using your Mounted Archery Feat you may expend a daily use of your Ki ability as a Free Action before making the attack roll, and for the remainder of the encounter you take no attack penalties unless your mount is running, and even then the penalty is only -2.


Weapons Training
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you gain a Bonus on all attacks this round made with a weapon you have the Weapon Focus Feat for equal to your Level divided by 5 or your Charisma Modifier (Whichever is greater).


Improved Weapons Training
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, Weapons Training
Benefits: As per Weapons Training, but you apply the bonus to all attacks you make that round whether you have the Weapon Focus Feat for them or not.


Greater Weapons Training
Prerequisites: Improved Weapons Training, Weapon Focus, Weapons Training
Benefits: As per Improved Weapons Training, but the Bonus lasts for the duration of the encounter instead of a single round.


Weapons Training Mastery
Prerequisites: Greater Weapons Training, Improved Weapons Training, Weapon Focus, Weapons Training, BAB +12
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you can declare any one attack with a weapon you have the Weapon Focus Feat for an automatic success, you do not need to roll to hit.


Strike Training
Prerequisites: Weapon Specialization
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you gain a Bonus on all damage rolls this round made with a weapon you have the Weapon Specialization Feat for equal to your Level divided by 5 or your Charisma Modifier (Whichever is greater).


Improved Strike Training
Prerequisites: Strike Training, Weapon Specialization
Benefits:  As per Strike Training, but you apply the bonus to all successful attacks you make that round whether you have the Weapon Specialization Feat for them or not.


Greater Strike Training
Prerequisites: Improved Strike Training, Weapon Specialization
Benefits:  As per Improved Strike Training, but the Bonus lasts for the duration of the encounter instead of a single round.


Strike Training Mastery
Prerequisites: Greater Strike Training, Improved Strike Training, Weapon Specialization, BAB +12
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you can do maximum damage with a successful attack you have made with a weapon you have the Weapon Specialization Feat for.


One Kill
Prerequisites: Power Critical, BAB +8
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you automatically threaten a Critical with any attack made with a weapon you have the Power Critical Feat for on this round.


Improved One Kill
Prerequisites: One Kill, Power Critical, BAB +12
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you automatically threaten a Critical with any attack made this round.


Greater One Kill
Prerequisites: Improved One Kill, Power Critical, BAB +21
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you automatically threaten a Critical with any attack made during this encounter.


Cavalryman
Prerequisites: Mounted Combat
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you may reduce the DC of a Ride check by -5.


Veteran Cavalryman
Prerequisites: Cavalryman, Mounted Combat
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you may reduce the DC of a Ride check by -10.


Master Cavalryman
Prerequisites: Cavalryman, Mounted Combat, Veteran Cavalryman
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you may reduce the DC of a Ride check by -15.


Bear Slayer
Prerequisites: BAB 3+
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action after you successfully attack an Animal, you may immediately declare that attack to be a Critical hit.


Monster Slayer
Prerequisites: Bear Slayer
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action after you successfully attack a Magical Beast, you may immediately declare that attack to be a Critical hit.


Yokai Slayer
Prerequisites: Monster Slayer
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action after you successfully attack a Monstrous Humanoid, you may immediately declare that attack to be a Critical hit.


Oni Slayer
Prerequisites: Yokai Sayer
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action after you successfully attack an Outsider with the Evil subtype, you may immediately declare that attack to be a Critical hit.


Favor of the Kami
Prerequisites: 6th level
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you may Take 10 on any Skill Check you have ranks in instead of making the normal roll.


Improved Favor of the Kami
Prerequisites: Favor of the Kami, 10th level
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you may Take 10 on any Skill Check you have no ranks in instead of making the normal roll.


Greater Favor of the Kami
Prerequisites: Improved Favor of the Kami, 14th level
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you may Take 20 on any Skill Check instead of making the normal roll.


Armor Optimization
Prerequisites: BAB +3
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you may reduce the Armor Check Penalty of whatever armor you are wearing by 2 for 1 round.


Improved Armor Optimization
Prerequisites: Armor Optimization
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you may reduce the Armor Check Penalty of whatever armor you are wearing by 2 for the duration of the encounter, or by 4 for 1 round.


Greater Armor Optimization
Prerequisites: Improved Armor Optimization
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you may reduce the Armor Check Penalty of whatever armor you are wearing by 4 for the duration of the encounter, or by 6 for 1 round.


Battojutsu
Prerequisites: Quick Draw
Benefits: On the first combat turn when you draw your sword using the Quick Draw Feat, and if you attack before your opponent, you may expend a daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action, and if you successfully damage your opponent he is still considered Flat-Footed until after your Action on the next round.  


Improved Battojutsu
Prerequisites: Battojutsu, Quick Draw
Benefits: On the first turn of combat (or in the surprise round if you get the drop on your opponent) you can expend 1 Daily use of your Ki ability and your attack is considered a touch attack.


Greater Battojutsu
Prerequisites: Battojutsu, Improved Battojutsu, Quick Draw
Benefits: On the first turn of combat (or in the surprise round if you get the drop on your opponent) you can expend 1 Daily use of your Ki ability, and instead of your normal Initiative Modifier you can use your BAB to modify your Initiative.


Kyozetsu
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action when making an Attack of Opportunity you gain a +2 Bonus on the Attack and Damage rolls of any Attacks of Opportunity you make for 1 round.


Improved Kyozetsu
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Kyozetsu
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action when making an Attack of Opportunity you gain a +2 Bonus on the Attack and Damage rolls of any Attacks of Opportunity you make for the duration of the encounter.


Greater Kyozetsu
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Improved Kyozetsu, Kyozetsu
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action you can make Attacks of Opportunity you would normally be denied to to an opponents Feats/Class abilities for the rest of the encounter.  For example, if your opponent has the Improved Grapple Feat, you may still make Attacks of Opportunity against him if he attempts to grapple you.


Bougyo
Prerequisites: Combat Expertise
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action when using your Combat Expertise Feat you may increase your Dodge Bonus to AC by +2 for the round.


Improved Bougyo
Prerequisites: Bougyo, Combat Expertise
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action when using your Combat Expertise Feat you may increase your Dodge Bonus to AC by +2 for the duration of the encounter (if you do not use the Combat Expertise Feat on any round during the encounter you still gain this Dodge Bonus).  


Greater Bougyo
Prerequisites: Bougyo, Combat Expertise, Improved Bougyo
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action when using your Combat Expertise Feat you may turn any successful Critical hit you receive into a regular hit.


Keikai
Prerequisites: Eyes in the Back of Your Head
Benefits: If you are attacked while Denied your Dexterity Bonus to AC, you may expend a daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action to retain the Benefits of your Eyes in the Back of Your Head Feat.


Improved Keikai
Prerequisites: Eyes in the Back of Your Head, Keikai
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action opponents who are flanking you do not gain the Benefit of their Sneak Attack dice for 1 round.


Greater Keikai
Prerequisites: Eyes in the Back of Your Head, Improved Keikai, Keikai
Benefits: By expending one daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action opponents who are flanking you do not gain the Benefit of their Sneak Attack dice for the duration of the encounter.


Tsuyoi
Prerequisites: Power Attack
Benefits: When using your Power Attack Feat, you may expend a daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action to add one die to the weapon damage for that round.  For example a 1d8 weapon wound do 2d8.


Improved Tsuyoi
Prerequisites: Power Attack, Tsuyoi
Benefits: When using your Power Attack Feat, you may expend a daily use of your Ki Pool as a Free Action to add one die to the weapon damage for the duration of the encounter.


Greater Tsuyoi
Prerequisites: Power Attack, Improved Tsuyoi, Tsuyoi
Benefits: When using your Power Attack Feat, you may expend multiple daily uses of your Ki Pool as a Free Action to add multiple dice to the weapon damage for one round.  For example if you have a 1d8 weapon, and spend 3 uses of your Ki Pool, it does 4d8 for that round.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 06:16:16 AM by bhu » Logged

bhu
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2009, 12:39:48 PM »

Agreed. Make it flexible. You know how rangers get weapon style? Give samurais armor style, since some were heavy armored fighters and others weren't. That's one idea...

I like the weapon feature of the original 3.0 class. I'd like to see that brought back.

I am uncertain if I have the 3.0 class anywhere...which book was it?
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RobbyPants
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2009, 03:47:33 PM »

I'm assuming he means the Oriental Adventures one.
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2009, 04:01:22 PM »

To me, a Samurai is just a Fighter with bonus skill points that can only be put into Diplomacy, Craft (Calligraphy), Knowledge(Nobility & Royalty) and Ride (with all of the above added to the class skill list).  Fighter is about as flexible as you can get, with the current number of useful feats out there.

Then again, Samurai is a social class, rather than a fighting class, so I could just as easily see Samurai paladins, rangers, bards, or even experts (the vast majority of the later-period Tokugawa shogunate officials were basically bureaucrats, after all).
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veekie
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2009, 04:39:22 PM »

Agreed. Make it flexible. You know how rangers get weapon style? Give samurais armor style, since some were heavy armored fighters and others weren't. That's one idea...

I like the weapon feature of the original 3.0 class. I'd like to see that brought back.
This sounds like the way to do things. I suppose you could base it off L5R?
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woodenbandman
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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2009, 06:02:59 PM »

I have to say that I prefer ToB samurai. Every type of Samurai; the battlecharger/leader/katana basher; the two weapon using hurricane of steel; the crafty samurai who studies his opponents and attacks their weaknesses; all of these are easily created with single-classed Martial Adepts, or they will use one prestige class. So I'd say that I use the ToB samurai, because their easy to make and you don't need to do the whole Wuxia hero thing. Tiger Claw, White Raven, some Devoted Spirit, Iron Heart, Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, and Stone Dragon are all thematically appropriate for a Samurai, depending on what kind of samurai you're making. Just kinda avoid Tornado Throw (even though it's boss as hell), and you'll do fine.
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bhu
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« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2009, 01:25:29 PM »

Keep Peeking in the Inspiration Strikes board.  I'll have something up soon as I cna
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Midnight_v
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« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2009, 05:28:24 AM »

Flavor.

Vaguely oriental. Though the need to have orders of Evil hobogoblin samurai as well as Aasimar(Nephilim) should be there also. Bushido or the "code" should be an integral thing to them. Lastly... I'd like to see them keep Iuijustu Focus the skill as well as Ancestral relic. I suppose one could just add sudden strike instead ala Ghost faced killer as long as they had a good advancement rate for it.
Yes flexibility, though also... the whole katana mystique seems really the key to being a samurai in a lot of peoples minds. I suggest any d10 weapon maybe? Then a bow should be added in there too, as most samurai were about horse and bow. . . can't wait to see what you come up with.
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« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2009, 06:38:11 AM »

I'm thinking of making a Samurai remake soon so I wanted to do a bit of a poll.

Pros: I'd like to know what (if anything) people like about the class, and what they'd like me to keep in the remake.

Cons: What do you hate about the class, and would like to see left out?

Flavor: Would you prefer a pure fantasy class with vaguely oriental flavor as it is now?  Or something closer to the reality?  Do you still want it to be a heavily armored melee fighter wielding two weapons that intimidates opponents?



What I dislike about the Samurai in any of its incarnations is that it is a Westernized - and therefore bastardized - idea of what a Japanese warrior was like, based off of Japanese pop culture misconceptions.

No, Samurai did not fight exclusively with katana. Katana are relatively recent weapons. Samurai started out as mounted warriors with bows and spears, which are much more useful on a battlefield than a sword, which would have been the equivalent of a sidearm such as a pistol. (Or so I hear, at any rate.)

Now, I am aware that we are playing a fantasy game and etc, and that stereotypes are fun to a certain extent. But please don't let the Samurai-Japanese-Honorable Warrior-Dual Wielding-Toshiba-Honda-Mitsubishi-Kawasaki-Katana-Seppuku stereotype be the defining feature of the class.
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Midnight_v
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« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2009, 07:41:45 AM »

Wow... I totally disagree. I belive the "pop" samurai "Idea-set" is preferable to any "historical" type.
Mainly because we are talking about a fantasy game and one that draws heaviliy on the "pop" hell even the "pulp" ideas of what has been written. Historically innaccurate as it may be, it is a very small minority of people who read the word "Samurai" and envision
A spearman.
.....
Alternitively... we are in a fantasy world It maybe advisable to simple have a class that focuses on the use of a Racial weapon combination. Katana(MWBastardsword), Dwarven Waraxe(etc)... Hobgoblin butchersword or whatever. It should probbably be a defined weapon with a specific set of statistics to keep everyone from being a spikechain samurai or whatever, too.

I'm reminder of the "Limit Soilder" from the old board actually...
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« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2009, 07:45:40 AM »

I just tire of seeing people say "Samurai class! That means I get to swing a katana and be all seppuku and shit, right?"

You're right when people envision samuai as warriors who fought with katana, but basing a class around that seems kinda pointless when we already have fighters and warblades, who's point is to kill things by hitting them with swords a lot.

What crucial aspect of Samurai-ness cannot be done with existing melee classes? What part of being a Samurai is a dedicated class going to bring to life?

Samurai would have training in things like painting, diplomacy and etc that fighters would not have, but other than that, not much.

I also feel that letting real world fluff interfere too much with the mechanics of a class leads to fail. Just look at the Monk...

Or perhaps I'm just perpetually irritated when I see people misabuse Asian culture. Don't even get me started on fried cream cheese wontons.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 07:57:57 AM by Solo » Logged


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veekie
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2009, 10:37:09 AM »

Alternitively... we are in a fantasy world It maybe advisable to simple have a class that focuses on the use of a Racial weapon combination. Katana(MWBastardsword), Dwarven Waraxe(etc)... Hobgoblin butchersword or whatever. It should probbably be a defined weapon with a specific set of statistics to keep everyone from being a spikechain samurai or whatever, too.
This seems to be the ideal way to apply this in a fantasy world, or it's a PrC, not a base class, being simply far too niched. A Warrior Of Culture.
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"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
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There is no higher price than 'free'.

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bhu
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2009, 01:28:30 PM »

If it makes you feel better Solo I'm making them proficient with all the traditional Samurai weapons, including spears  Sofa

They'll have class abilities dedicated to what they prefer to fight with, so you can go traditional pop culture swordfighter type, or mounted archer/spearman if you wish


I have noted in researching them that the japanese fighters used shields before advances in weaponry and such were considered to have made them obsolete.  Im considering letting the samurai be proficient with shields assuming i can ever find a bloody picture of one of them...(it would help to know what kind of shield was used).
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 02:03:01 PM by bhu » Logged

bhu
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2009, 02:10:35 PM »

Sneak preview of skills.  If you wish to leave feedback now is the time:

Class Skills
 The Samurai's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Geography, History, Local, Nobility & Royalty)(Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spot (Wis).
Skills Per Day at 1st Level : (4 + int)x4
Skills Per Day at Each Additional Level : 4 + int
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Solo
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« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2009, 04:06:43 PM »

If it makes you feel better Solo I'm making them proficient with all the traditional Samurai weapons, including spears  Sofa

They'll have class abilities dedicated to what they prefer to fight with, so you can go traditional pop culture swordfighter type, or mounted archer/spearman if you wish


I have noted in researching them that the japanese fighters used shields before advances in weaponry and such were considered to have made them obsolete.  Im considering letting the samurai be proficient with shields assuming i can ever find a bloody picture of one of them...(it would help to know what kind of shield was used).

I doubt they had tower shields, but anything below that seems fair game.
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"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.
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