Author Topic: Meenlocks + Fear Effects  (Read 1880 times)

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Ithamar

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Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« on: March 16, 2009, 02:24:14 PM »
Monster Manual II, pg. 146 - 147 has an ugly little critter called the Meenlock.  It comes with two (Su) abilities, at will, that are fear effects that either render their foe catatonic (i.e. helpless) or deal 1d4 WIS damage.  Normally ECL 8 (4 Aberration HD, +4 LA), would not be worth it.  But for a gestalt game (specifically an arena), what can we stack on top of these guys to tweak out the fear factor?  Both of the abilities are CHA based, so something with Binder or Hexblade (Dark Companion) to help lower saves might be interesting.  I've read the fear handbooks and gotten a few decent ideas so far, but I'm sure there is plenty I'm missing.

The fact they get Dimension Door as (Su) every 2 rounds, and 300' telepathy just helps make these guys that much more interesting.

So would they be worth the optimization effort?  Or am I just too easily impressed by the value of these tiny buggers?
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Negative Zero

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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 02:27:26 PM »
You could take Mindsight. That's always fun. What level is the arena level?

Ithamar

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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 02:28:15 PM »
Starting at ECL 9 with fairly rapid advancement.  And yes, Mindsight was one of the main reasons I mentioned the telepathy bit.
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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 02:32:52 PM »
If Dragon Compendium stuff is allowed, that has the Unseelie Fey, which can get the ability to impose a penalty to an adjacent (living, nonfey) enemy's saves equal to their Cha modifier.
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Ithamar

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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2009, 02:35:11 PM »
Nope, no Dragon Compendium.  That is about all that is not allowed basically, that and no BoVD.  Other stuff, even web enhancements on a case by case basis, can be allowed.  No third party stuff, obviously.
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2009, 02:38:02 PM »
My bad  :embarrassed
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 02:57:50 PM by BowenSilverclaw »
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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 02:50:44 PM »
Psst, he said he already checked out the fear handbook...

I would go with a save-debuffer on the other side. Hexblade 4/Binder X is a simple start, with the shadow companion and those vestiges that create negative auras around you. Later you could even dip Blackguard for another aura, but that's a lot of feats to sink in. I think I'd rather keep going Binder or KotSS.
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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2009, 02:56:54 PM »
Would Focholar be the best vestige probably?  Since undead gladiators are a definite possibility, what would be a good strategy (or two) against them, or other critters immune to mind-affecting powers?
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woodenbandman

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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2009, 02:59:52 PM »
Dread witch bypasses fear immunity, so you could have a dread necro/dread witch or sorceror/dread witch, and put the Hex/binder on the other side of the gestalt(the meenlock side)

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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2009, 03:03:46 PM »
I thought about that PrC (and the other fear based one... Nightmare Spinner?), but unfortunately their abilities specifically reference spells, so I don't think you can get it to apply to the Meenie's (Su) abilities.

I'm mainly concerned about the Save being limited to 10 + 1/2 HD + CHA.  Even with Ability Focus, taking a few extra racial HD (yes, that's allowed), the DC for these is still going to be fairly low.  The +4 CHA that the race receives helps out a bit, but not much.
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Negative Zero

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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2009, 03:22:06 PM »
Is it restricted to racial HD?

Ithamar

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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2009, 03:44:11 PM »
Is what restricted to racial HD?
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Surreal

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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2009, 03:51:13 PM »
My understanding is that the save DC's of Su abilities are based on total HD, not just racial HD.
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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2009, 03:58:31 PM »
I've always interpreted it to be racial HD only, if it is any and all HD of the creature...  :smirk

Granted that gets a little cheesey in gestalt, but them's the breaks I suppose.
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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2009, 04:13:54 PM »
I think DCs are based on all HD, but I don't remember why I think that...  :facepalm

You'd need an effective binder level of 5 to bind Focalor for the -2 DC aura. That could be gained with Binder 3 + Improved Binding (or Binder 1+ Anima Mage 2). So you could fit that in with 4 levels of Hexblade, or 3-4 levels of Palladin of Tyranny, but not both.

Sounds like an awesome race for this purpose. Maybe stick Monk 2 on there and take the Sun School feat for some Stunning Fist action, and add some poison too. Force as many saves as possible, of different types.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 04:15:37 PM by PhaedrusXY »
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Ithamar

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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2009, 04:28:56 PM »
Yeah, I had previously thought about the Sun School option.  Meenlocks have a claw attack that can paralyze, so that might be a good option as well.  Their fear aura is a free action, but the WIS damage is a standard.  Each of their claws can force a save vs. paralysis so maybe Rapidstrike for extra claw attacks each round.  Hmmm...
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Echoes

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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2009, 03:26:32 AM »
The Rules Compendium specifies that the save DC for a Supernatural ability is 10 + 1/2 HD (no mention of racial, just HD in general) + ability.

I'm pretty sure this was in the various Monster Manuals as well.
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Thinblade

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Re: Meenlocks + Fear Effects
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2009, 08:02:57 PM »
Ha. And here I thought the title was a contraction for a new kind of warlock variation...

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