Author Topic: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?  (Read 12282 times)

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Bozwevial

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[D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« on: March 15, 2009, 06:31:13 PM »
This is an idea I've been kicking around for a while, but the basic idea is to convert D&D to something using the Star Wars Saga Edition rules. Saves to defenses, classes grant talents, the whole nine yards.

One of the largest problems I see thus far is converting the spellcasters, but I imagine we could simply use something like the Force Powers system: skill-check based powers granted by feats, keyed to separate skills for arcane (Arcana) and divine (Religion) casters.

Another difficulty in conversion is that there are exactly five heroic classes in SWSE, whereas D&D has eleven in the PHB alone.

There are two solutions I see:

1) Use archetypal classes (e.g. Warrior, Mage, Priest, Thief, etcetera) and make players pick one of a set of bonuses when they enter the class--for instance, players entering the Thief class could choose the Bard subclass to gain training in the Arcana skill.

2) Use the above archetypal classes and turn classes and their abilities into talent trees. This makes it easier to add on other classes later and is probably more suitable to the SWSE ruleset anyway.

Who thinks this is feasible? Who thinks this would be balanced/imbalanced? Who's willing to help?

veekie

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 02:09:52 PM »
One of the largest problems I see thus far is converting the spellcasters, but I imagine we could simply use something like the Force Powers system: skill-check based powers granted by feats, keyed to separate skills for arcane (Arcana) and divine (Religion) casters.

Or you could make subsets of powers available off talents, each talent buys you a few power options. Talent trees for specialised powers, but most of them would scale with level, so you don't suck even if you spread yourself thin instead of up a tree.

Quote
2) Use the above archetypal classes and turn classes and their abilities into talent trees. This makes it easier to add on other classes later and is probably more suitable to the SWSE ruleset anyway.
My pick is this, more scalable, and you could probably fold nearly all the casters into 1-2 archetypes anyway, provided all the magic got packaged neatly as above.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Bozwevial

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 05:40:30 PM »

Or you could make subsets of powers available off talents, each talent buys you a few power options. Talent trees for specialised powers, but most of them would scale with level, so you don't suck even if you spread yourself thin instead of up a tree.

Since they're skill-check based, they'll scale anyway. I'm not sure about this, because it places too much emphasis on the power system, and while I don't want to have the 4e problem of "everyone has powers, so everyone's bland and generic", I don't want to make the casters the only ones who have any powers of note. As SWSE stands, Jedi have access to Force Powers, but there aren't that many to choose from and they require an investment, making them a nicely balanced addition. Plus, anyone with a couple feats to burn and training in Use The Force can access them.

Quote
My pick is this, more scalable, and you could probably fold nearly all the casters into 1-2 archetypes anyway, provided all the magic got packaged neatly as above.

I figure we'd have the Mage archetype and the Priest archetype, each keyed off of Arcana (or Spellcraft, because the word Arcane gets bandied about a lot) and Religion, respectively. Separate talent trees for wizard/sorcerer, cleric/druid, etcetera.

Soda

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2009, 12:22:28 PM »
Races

Dwarves
+2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity
Medium Size
Speed: 4 squares. However, dwarves are can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.
Darkvision: Dwarves ignore concealment (including total concealment) from darkness. However, they cannot perceive colors in total darkness.
Stability: Dwarves gain a +5 species bonus on ability checks made to resist being moved or tripped when standing on the ground.
Conditional Bonus Feat: A dwarf with Craft as a trained skill gains Skill Focus (Craft) as a bonus feat.
Automatic Languages: Common and Dwarven


Elves
+2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution
Medium Size
Speed: 6 squares
Low-Light Vision: Elves ignore concealment (but not total concealment) from darkness.
Iron Will: Elves gain a +2 species bonus to their Will Defense.
Heightened Awareness: An elf may choose to reroll any Perception check, but the result of the reroll must be accepted even if it's worse.
Automatic Languages: Common and Elven


Gnomes
+2 Constitution, -2 Strength
Small Size: As small creatures, gnomes gain a +1 size bonus to their Reflex Defense and a +5 size bonus on Stealth checks. However, their lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of medium characters.
Speed: 4 squares
Low-Light Vision: Gnomes ignore concealment (but not total concealment) from darkness.
Automatic Languages: Common and Gnome


Half-Elves
Medium Size
Speed: 6 squares
Low-Light Vision: Half-Elves ignore concealment (but not total concealment) from darkness.
Persuasive: A half-elf may choose to reroll any Persuasion check, but the result of the reroll must be accepted even if it's worse.
Bonus Trained Skill: A half-elf chooses one additional trained skill at 1st level.
Elven Blood: For all effects related to species, a half-elf is considered an elf.
Automatic Languages: Common and Elven


Half-Orc
+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence
Medium Size
Speed: 6 squares
Darkvision: Half-Orcs ignore concealment (including total concealment) from darkness. However, they cannot perceive colors in total darkness.
Great Fortitude: Half-Orcs gain a +2 species bonus to their Fortitude Defense.
Orc Blood: For all effects related to species, a half-orc is considered an orc.
Automatic Languages: Common and Orc


Halfling
+2 Dexterity, -2 Strength
Small Size: As small creatures, halflings gain a +1 size bonus to their Reflex Defense and a +5 size bonus on Stealth checks. However, their lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of medium characters.
Speed: 4 squares
Deceptive: A halfling may choose to reroll any Deception check, but the result of the reroll must be accepted even if it's worse.
Superior Defenses: Halflings gain a +1 species bonus to all of their defenses.
Automatic Languages: Common and Halfling


Orc
+4 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom
Medium Size
Speed: 6 squares
Darkvision: Orcs ignore concealment (including total concealment) from darkness. However, they cannot perceive colors in total darkness.
Great Fortitude: Orcs gain a +2 species bonus to their Fortitude Defense.
Physical Intimidation: When using the Persuasion skill to intimidate, orcs may use their Strength bonus instead of their Charisma bonus for the check modifier.
Nomads: An orc can reroll any Survival check, but the result must be accepted even if it is worse.
Automatic Languages: Common and Orc


Goblin
+2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution
Small Size: As small creatures, goblins gain a +1 size bonus to their Reflex Defense and a +5 size bonus on Stealth checks. However, their lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of medium characters.
Speed: 6 squares
Darkvision: Goblins ignore concealment (including total concealment) from darkness. However, they cannot perceive colors in total darkness.
Sneaky: A goblin may choose to reroll any Stealth check to sneak, but the result of the reroll must be accepted even if it's worse.
Automatic Languages: Common and Goblin


Hobgoblin
Medium Size
Speed: 6 squares
Darkvision: Hobgoblins ignore concealment (including total concealment) from darkness. However, they cannot perceive colors in total darkness.
Superior Defenses: Hobgoblins gain a +1 species bonus to all of their defenses.
Bonus Feat: Hobgoblins gain Toughness as a bonus feat.
Automatic Languages: Common and Goblin


Bugbear
+2 Strength, -2 Charisma
Medium Size
Speed: 6 squares
Darkvision: Bugbears ignore concealment (including total concealment) from darkness. However, they cannot perceive colors in total darkness.
Scent: Bugbears ignore concealment and cover when making Perception checks to notice opponents within 10 squares, and take no penalty from poor visibility when tracking.
Bonus Feat: Bugbears gain Toughness as a bonus feat.
Automatic Languages: Common and Goblin



Skills

Spellcraft (Cha)
Requires the Magical Sensitivity feat.

Cast Spell: (as Activate Force Power)

Magical Trance: (as Force Trance)

Mage Hand: (as Move Light Object)

Detect Magic (Trained Only): As a full-round action, you can use this ability to sense the magical auras of creatures or objects within 20 meters. If you succeed on a DC 15 Spellcraft check, you know how many magical auras are within range, their approximate direction and distance from you, and the relative strength of the aura. Another creature trained in Spellcraft can try to conceal her presence from you by making an opposed Spellcraft check. If she equals or exceeds your Spellcraft check, you don't sense her presence at all.

Arcane Eye: (as Sense Surroundings)

Message: (as Telepathy except:)
Distance         DC
Same town      15
Same region      20
Same plane      25
Different plane      30

Special: You can't make Spellcraft checks unless you have the Magical Sensitivity feat. Spellcraft is a class skill for any character with the Magical Sensitivity feat.
You can take 10 on a Spellcraft check, but you can't take 20.



Craft (Int)
Trained Only

Craft Item (requires tool kit): Pay three-quarters of the item's price for raw materials. Make an appropriate Craft check representing one day of work. An item requires one day of work per 1,000 credits (cp) of the price of the item. A new Craft check is required for each day of work.
If you fail a check by 4 or less, you make no progress on that day.
If you fail a check by 5 or more, you ruin some raw materials and have to pay one-quarter of the item's original price again.

Item                            Craft Skill    DC
Very simple item                  Varies       10
Typical item                      Varies       15
High-quality item                 Varies       20
Superior item                     Varies       25
Complex item                      Varies       30
Mastercrafted item                Varies       35
Weapon                            Weapons      15
Armor or Shield                   Armor        10 + Reflex bonus
Smokestick, Sunrod, Tindertwig    Alchemy      15
Alchemist's Fire                  Alchemy      20
Healing Potion                    Alchemy      20
Tanglefoot Bag, Thunderstone      Alchemy      25


Smokestick: A smokestick instantly fills a 2x2 square area with thick smoke, granting concealment to all inside the area.

Sunrod: When ignited, a sunrod glows brightly in a 6 square radius for 6 hours.

Tindertwig: A tindertwig makes fire. Lighting a fire with a tindertwig is a standard action (rather than a full-round action).

Alchemist's Fire:
Alchemist's Fire is one type of dangerous alchemical cocktail. When thrown it explodes in a 2 square burst, and deals 4d6 energy damage. When you make an area attack with Alchemist's Fire, make a single attack roll and compare the result to the Reflex Defense of every target in the burst's radius. Creatures you hit take full damage, and creatures you miss take half damage. A target with the Evasion talent takes half damage from a successful attack and no damage if the attack misses. Throwing alchemist fire is covered by Weapon Proficiency (simple weapons).

Healing Potion: A healing potion can be consumed as a standard action. The creature consuming it regains a number of hit points equal to its character level plus 5. That creature can then not benefit from another healing potion for 24 hours.

Tanglefoot Bag/Thunderstone: Tanglefoot bags and thunderstones are thrown, exploding over a 2 square area. Make a single attack roll vs every target in the area. If the roll equals or exceeds both a target's Reflex Defense and Fortitude Defense, the target moves -2 steps along the condition track.

Mastercrafted Item: A mastercrafted item is above and beyond any other. The cost for raw materials to craft a mastercrafted item is double what it would be for a usual item of its type. A mastercrafted item gains one of the following traits. An item can only ever have one mastercrafted trait.

Armor Traits
Agile Armor            Increases the armor's maximum Dexterity bonus 1.
Fortifying Armor       Increases the armor's equipment bonus to Fortitude Defense by 1.
Protective Armor       Increases the armor's armor bonus to Reflex Defense by 1.
Weapon Traits
Improved Accuracy      The weapon gains a +1 equipment bonus on attack rolls.
Improved Damage        The weapon deals +2 points of damage with a successful hit. This damaged is multiplied on a critical hit.
Device Traits
Enhanced Strength      Increases the device's Strength score by 2.
Improved Durability    The device's damage reduction increases by 1, and it gains extra hit points equal to one-quarter of its base hit points.
Mastercraft Device     Skill checks made using the device gain a +1 equipment bonus, or the device's existing equipment bonus increases by 1.




Armors and Shields


Light
                Ref     Fort   Max Dex
Light Leather   +2      -       +5
Light Mail      +4      +1      +4
Buckler         +1      -       -
Light Shield    +2      -       -

Medium
                Ref     Fort   Max Dex
Full Leather    +5      +1      +4
Full Mail       +6      +2      +3
Light Plate     +7      +3      +2
Heavy Shield    +2      +1       -

Heavy
                Ref     Fort   Max Dex
Full Plate      +10     +4      +1
Tower Shield    +4      +2      +2



Shields: Shields provide a shield bonus to Reflex Defense which stacks with all other bonuses to Reflex Defense. Heavy and tower shields also provide an equipment bonus to Fortitude Defense which stacks with any equipment bonus to Fortitude Defense from armor. You lose your shield bonus to Reflex Defense when you are flat-footed.

Shield Proficiency: If you are proficient with light armors, you may use a buckler or light shield without suffering its armor check penalty. If you are proficient with medium armor, you may use heavy shields without penalty. If you are proficient with heavy armor, you may use tower shields without penalty. The armor check penalty from wielding a shield you aren't proficient with stacks with the armor check penalty from wearing armor you aren't proficient with.

Buckler: A buckler is a small shield strapped to the forearm. It doesn't require a hand to use, but if you use that arm for anything else (such as fighting with two weapons, or one weapon wielded in two hands), you lose the buckler's bonus to Reflex Defense until the beginning of your next turn.

Tower Shield: A tower shield can instead be used as total cover, though you must give up all attacks during a round in which you do so (including attacks of opportunity). The shield does not, however, provide cover against targeted spells. Additionally, if fighting defensively with a tower shield, the bonuses to Reflex Defense for fighting defensively improve to +5 (or +10 if you take no attacks). This does not stack with the bonuses for being trained in the Acrobatics skill.

Shield Bash: You can bash an opponent with a light or heavy shield, using it as a weapon. A heavy shield counts as a one-handed weapon, while a light shield counts as a light weapon. If you use your shield to attack, you lose its bonus Reflex Defense until the beginning of your next turn.

Feat:
Improved Shield Bash
Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency.
Benefit: When you perform a shield bash, you retain your shield bonus to Reflex Defense.
Normal: You lose your shield bonus to Reflex Defense when you make a shield bash.


Weapons


Unarmed               Damage      Type   
Unarmed, Small          1d3        B   
Unarmed, Medium         1d4        B
Gauntlet                +1         B   
Spiked Gauntlet         +1         P

Tiny                  Damage      Type   
Dagger                 2d4         S or P Throw
Dart                   2d4         P      Throw

Small                 Damage      Type   
Club                   2d6         B      Throw
Shortspear             2d6         P      Throw
Mace, light            2d6         P
Sickle                 2d6         S
Handaxe                2d6         S      Throw
Hammer                 2d6         B      Throw
Pick, light            2d6         P
Shortsword             2d6         P
Shield, light          2d4         B
Spiked Shield, light   2d4         P
Spiked Armor           2d4         P
Sling                  2d6         B      Ranged
Hand Crossbow          3d6         P      Ranged

Medium                Damage      Type   
Mace, heavy            2d8         B
Spear                  2d8         P
Battleaxe              2d8         S
Flail, light           2d8         B
Longsword              2d8         S
Pick, heavy            2d8         P
Rapier                 2d8         P
Scimitar               2d8         S
Shield, heavy          2d6         B
Spiked Shield, heavy   2d6         P
Trident                2d8         P      Throw
Warhammer              2d8         B
Bayonet                2d6         P
Shortbow               2d8         P      Ranged
Crossbow, light        3d8         P      Ranged

Large                 Damage      Type
Quarterstaff           2d6/2d6     B   
Longspear              2d8         P      Reach
Falchion               2d10        S
Glaive                 2d8         S      Reach
Greatsword             2d10        S
Greatclub              2d10        B
Greataxe               2d10        S
Flail, heavy           2d10        B
Halberd                2d8         P or S Reach
Longbow                2d10        P      Ranged
Crossbow, heavy        3d10        P      Ranged
Crossbow, repeating    3d8         P      Ranged, Exotic



Crossbows:

Bows: A bow must be used two-handed regardless of size. You add your Strength modifier to damage rolls when firing a bow.

Rapier:Sling: Your Strength modifier applies to damage rolls when you use a sling, just as it does for thrown weapons. Loading a sling is a move action that requires two hands and provokes attacks of opportunity.

Repeating Crossbow: The repeating crossbow holds 5 crossbow bolts. As long as it holds bolts, you can reload it by pulling the reloading lever (a free action). Loading a new case of 5 bolts is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. A repeating crossbow must be used two-handed.

Bayonet: Bayonets are affixed to the end of light or heavy crossbow. They require Weapon Proficiency with crossbows and simple weapons to wield without penalty.


Feat:
Rapid Reload
Prerequisite: Weapon Proficiency (crossbows)
The time required for you to reload crossbows is reduced to a swift action (for a hand or light crossbow) or a move action (for a heavy crossbow or repeating crossbow). Reloading a crossbow still provokes an attack of opportunity.



Constructs
Abilities: Constructs are nonliving entities and do not have Constitution scores. Constructs don't gain bonus hit points and add their Strength modifier to Fortitude Defense instead. They gain ability score increases as normal.

Nonliving: Constructs don't need to sleep, eat, or breathe.
Constructs are immune to poison, disease, radiation, noncorrosive atmospheric hazards, vacuum, mind-affecting effects, stunning effects, and any other effect that only works on living targets.
Constructs don't die but they can be disabled or destroyed. If one is reduced to 0 hit points, it is disabled and cannot be reactivated until it is repaired so that is has at least 1 hit point. If the attack that reduced the construct to 0 hit points also exceeds the construct's damage threshold, the construct is instead destroyed and cannot be repaired.

Repair: Constructs regain lost hit points only through use of the Mechanics skill. A construct can use this skill to repair itself but takes it a -5 penalty on its check.

Skills: Constructs normally cannot use any skill untrained except Acrobatics, Climb, Jump, and Perception.

Intelligent Constructs
Intelligent Constructs lose their immunity to mind-affecting effects and do not have the normal limitation on untrained skills.



Animal Companion Talent Tree
You have bonded with a faithful animal.

Animal Companion: You gain an animal follower. Don't choose a follower template as normal, instead choose either a large or medium sized animal companion. This follower gains the animal companion follower's traits. An animal companion counts towards the total number of followers you have.

Animal Trainer's Actions: (as Akk Dog Trainer's Actions)

Animal Attack Training: (as Akk Dog Attack Training)

Protective Reaction: (as normal)


Animal Companion Traits

Abilities: Medium animal companions have abilities as follows. Strength 14, Dexterity 10, Constitution 12, Wisdom 10, Intelligence 2, Charisma 8
Large animal companions have these abilities, except +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity. Further, an animal companion gains a +2 bonus to either Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, or Wisdom.

Size: Large animal companions take a -1 size penalty to Reflex Defense and a -5 size penalty to Stealth checks. Their lifting and carrying limits are double those of Medium creatures.

Defenses: Animal companions gain a +2 bonus to either their Reflex Defense or Fortitude Defense.

Base Attack Bonus: Animal companions use your base attack bonus.

Speed: An animal companion's base speed is 6 squares.

Natural Armor: Animal companions gain a +2 natural armor bonus to Reflex Defense.

Natural Weapon: When an animal companion makes an unarmed attack, it can use its natural weapons, dealing 1d6 damage (plus its Strength modifier) if Medium, or 1d8 (plus its Strength modifier) if Large instead of normal unarmed damage. The type of the damage is either slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning, chosen when this talent is selected.

Trained Skills: Animal companions are trained in one appropriate skill of your choice.

Feats: Animal Companions gain the Power Attack and Toughness feats.

Share Spells: Any spell you activate that targets you may target your animal companion instead, at your discretion.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 11:38:49 PM by Soda »

veekie

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2009, 04:15:23 PM »

Or you could make subsets of powers available off talents, each talent buys you a few power options. Talent trees for specialised powers, but most of them would scale with level, so you don't suck even if you spread yourself thin instead of up a tree.

Since they're skill-check based, they'll scale anyway. I'm not sure about this, because it places too much emphasis on the power system, and while I don't want to have the 4e problem of "everyone has powers, so everyone's bland and generic", I don't want to make the casters the only ones who have any powers of note. As SWSE stands, Jedi have access to Force Powers, but there aren't that many to choose from and they require an investment, making them a nicely balanced addition. Plus, anyone with a couple feats to burn and training in Use The Force can access them.
4e's problem was in making all the powers the same, everyone having powers is a Good ThingTM. But, again, you don't need powers for everyone, only for the spellcasters, the rest can have their choice of active or passive talents or mix thereof.
Quote
Quote
My pick is this, more scalable, and you could probably fold nearly all the casters into 1-2 archetypes anyway, provided all the magic got packaged neatly as above.

I figure we'd have the Mage archetype and the Priest archetype, each keyed off of Arcana (or Spellcraft, because the word Arcane gets bandied about a lot) and Religion, respectively. Separate talent trees for wizard/sorcerer, cleric/druid, etcetera.
Seems like that'd work, though I'd differentiate the arcane casters a bit more finely(by spell school for example)
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Soda

  • Bi-Curious George
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  • Posts: 484
Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2009, 04:23:47 PM »
Check out Iron Heroes if you can.

They boiled down the spells such that there isn't Charm Person -> Charm Monster -> Dominate Person -> Mass Dominate Everything, it's just one scaling spell called Alter Mind.

Likewise, evocation is just a single damage dealing spell, that scales in power/targets/type/shape.


EDIT- How much of 3.5 is supposed to be compatible?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 04:38:27 PM by Soda »

Bozwevial

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2009, 05:34:18 PM »
Soda--Ideally, all we'd have to do to introduce new options would be to follow WotC's example--new talent trees, feats, and maybe a power or two. If we can get things to the point where a new talent tree or two would suffice to create a class, we should be golden. I'm kind of aiming for a secondary goal here--your abilities, not your class, define what you are. You're a paladin because you kick ass in combat and have holy powers, not because you have the word "paladin" in the box on your character sheet that's labeled "Class".

veekie--True. It works for SWSE, it works here. And admittedly, it only takes a modest investment to get the powers, which is a bit of a balancing factor. We'll just need to tweak the talents to make sure things stay even.

On the arcane caster differentiation--Different talent trees grant different schools of spells, right?

veekie

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2009, 12:30:31 PM »
Yeah, and if you want to get fancy, some advanced trees might even require multiple lower trees to get. Dual school spells and all that.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Soda

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2009, 12:45:53 PM »
I'm on board when it comes to melee. I think that it would be great, I really dig the talent/bonus feat structure.

I can't see magic existing as a feat/skill system, in any way similar to the spells we have now.

The Force is pretty tame in what it can do. Move this, sense that. But D&D magic? It can do anything and everything.

Also, I don't see much of a place for magic items.

I'm totally fine with a setting that isn't all about magic, I just want to know how everyone wants to proceed.


Mostly I just wanna play SWSE now.  :)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 01:01:29 PM by Soda »

Soda

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2009, 02:05:16 PM »
I'm still trying to crack this egg.  :banghead

Bozwevial

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2009, 03:51:23 PM »
What do you have so far? Another perspective is always helpful.

Soda

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2009, 04:12:03 PM »
Uhh, nothing. I haven't decided on an approach yet.

Going full saga is a lot of work, including full skill rewrites and some completely different rules.

And I can't imagine this being anything but a low magic setting.

Saga is not 3.5. That means everything needs to be redone. There's a whole new balance point. And it's nowhere near D&D's balance point.


If anyone's interested, I think we either have to figure out magic first, or do all the rest first.

StormingMarcus

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2009, 04:15:59 PM »
It depends whether we are going to a highmagic standard D&D or to a lowmagic setting.
I second the second option: it needs less work and it could offer a great way to run a low-magic-but-still-balanced d20 game.

Bozwevial

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2009, 04:19:44 PM »
Low magic is fine. Not to the extent that it's a rarity for someone to cast magic missile, for example, but magic items are probably fairly rare--this isn't quite Eberron, for instance. (If we do add the artificer, though, that'll be interesting to work out.)

Soda

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2009, 05:08:09 PM »
Then I guess let's decide what the classes are gonna be.

Jedi, Soldier, Scout, Scoundrel, Noble works real well for SW. I think for now we could just stick to the usual base classes, unless someone has a good simplified list. My only ideas: barbarian is a talent tree, paladin is a PrC.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 06:12:27 PM by Soda »

Bozwevial

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2009, 07:43:50 PM »
So:

Cleric
Fighter
Monk
Bard
Druid
Sorcerer
Wizard
Rogue
Ranger

Still seems like a fair bit. How about we take a leaf from UA and turn Ranger, Bard, and Paladin into prestige classes? That leaves us with:

Cleric
Fighter
Monk
Druid
Sorcerer
Wizard
Rogue

I still think this is an odd number. Ideally, we could combine Cleric and Druid in some fashion, Monk could be turned into a talent tree, and Sorcerer/Wizard could be merged.

Priest (Cleric/Druid)
Fighter (Monk/Barbarian/Fighter)
Mage (Sorcerer/Wizard)
Rogue

With Paladin, Ranger, and Bard as prestige classes.

Comments?

Soda

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2009, 08:22:26 PM »
It seems so constricting to me.

Like if you're gonna fight, you have to be a fighter. What else will you be? A rogue?

I dunno, it just doesn't feel quite complete.

Maybe a fifth Leader class.

Maybe even just use the SW classes. Scout and Noble do fill nice roles, IMO.


I have to say (again), that we must not go D&D -> Saga. It will never fit. We have to go Saga -> fantasy setting.



Y'know, I think SWSE got it right. Scout, Scoundrel, Noble, Soldier (warrior), Magic user (or mage and priest) feels good. I think it covers any character concept.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 08:57:42 PM by Soda »

Bozwevial

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2009, 10:08:42 PM »
Perhaps the name Fighter was misleading.

So, Scout, Scoundrel, Noble, Soldier, Magic-User.

Perhaps the prestige classes can be the 3.5 base classes--Monk, Ranger, Wizard, and their friends are all specialized, similiar to d20 Modern's Advanced classes.

Thoughts?

Soda

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2009, 10:20:53 PM »
I don't know any d20 Modern.

The system is surely flexible, there's be room for all types of characters, be it feat chains, or talents, or prcs, or more base classes down the line.


Regardless of names, I think starting with the Scout, Scoundrel, Noble, and Soldier is a good plan. I feel this way because I don't have much of a sense for swse balance yet, and magic tends to run wild. But that's just me.

Bozwevial

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Re: [D&D 3.5] Dungeons and Dragons--Saga Edition?
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2009, 11:52:44 PM »
Well, if we keep strict reins on magic, it should play along nicely with the rest of the system.