Author Topic: Guaging Interest again  (Read 7846 times)

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veekie

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Re: Guaging Interest again
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2009, 04:29:44 PM »
Toss em in and let the votes sort them out?
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bhu

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Re: Guaging Interest again
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2009, 07:10:02 AM »
Spurious bump  :D

It would seem there is a certain amount of disappointment in the ninja.  I figured it would do well, but not tie with the truenamer.

InnaBinder

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Re: Guaging Interest again
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2009, 10:33:38 AM »
Spurious bump  :D

It would seem there is a certain amount of disappointment in the ninja.  I figured it would do well, but not tie with the truenamer.
I'm surprised at the ennui regarding the Divine Mind, personally.


Edit: words randomly ___appear
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 02:27:07 AM by InnaBinder »
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bhu

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Re: Guaging Interest again
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2009, 12:14:52 AM »
yeah DM does seem to get its share of hate....

Samb

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Re: Guaging Interest again
« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2009, 02:19:30 AM »
I'm surprised that wilder is getting so many votes.

If you look carefully (and with a bit flexibility) you would see that it isn't nearly that bad.

First you need to know the Mind's eye variants.  Educated wilder takes away volatile mind and replaces it with a free EPK feat.  Your powers known just went from 11 to 15 and they can be of any list.  This is the single best fix that WoTC made for wilder.  The other mantled variant gives up the elude touch class feature for a mantle, elude touch is actually a good class feature but getting key powers earlier and without burning a feat to get them might be worthwhile.

Wilder has 3/4 BAB progression, same as psychic warrior.  Getting heavy armor proficiency isn't that hard if you dip into psiwarrior or fighter.  Don't compare wilder to a psion, they were not made to fill the same roles.   3/4 BAB and light armor makes wilder capable of fighting in the front lines, surging euphoria should be a strong hint that wilders should be fighting.  Wilders can be built in a number of different ways to do many different things, but they have to commit. 

Here's where your DM will have to have a somewhat open mind: overchannel= wild surge  It isn't that much of a stretch.  They do the same thing, they cannot be used at the same time, both have side effects, either or is needed to qualify for anarchic initiate.  So by this logic, a wilder can qualify for the talented feat.

What should talented do for wild surge?  Well we know that it makes overchanneling powers of 3rd level or less deal no damage, hence takes away the side effect of overchannel.  So it should take away the side effect of wild surge as well.

This might sound powerful, but in fact it is not.  It simply makes wilder worth leveling to 20.  Psychic ennervation is a chance to lose PSP and one round as opposed to overchannel which is a guarantee to take damage.  Expending focus just to prevent something that might happen offsets the +ML that wild surge provides.  Even with +6 ML there is still a 60% chance nothing will happen without talented.

Even without these leaps of faith rulings on talented, variant wilders are still very decent when you consider everything they do has +2ML on it.  This is a class that looks bad on paper but shines in a good players hands.  Try it out and I don't think you will want to fix it.

I'm considering writing a Wilder handbook to show just how to overcome the precieved weaknesses of wilders.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 02:25:50 AM by Samb »

bhu

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Re: Guaging Interest again
« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2009, 06:45:30 AM »
I so cant believe Ninja is leading the poll...

AfterCrescent

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Re: Guaging Interest again
« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2009, 01:11:54 AM »
It's poorly built, bhu. Why do you think so many people, including myself, have rebuilt it?
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bhu

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Re: Guaging Interest again
« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2009, 07:05:27 AM »
It's poorly built, bhu. Why do you think so many people, including myself, have rebuilt it?
True but there are much worse classes...

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Re: Guaging Interest again
« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2009, 09:24:48 PM »
But it has such love, which is the problem. When you take a class where people love the fluff but hate the mechanics you get a bigger outrage than mediocre fluff and worse mechanics.
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InnaBinder

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Re: Guaging Interest again
« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2009, 10:11:26 PM »
But it has such love, which is the problem. When you take a class where people love the fluff but hate the mechanics you get a bigger outrage than mediocre fluff and worse mechanics.
*points to the Divine Mind* The man has a point.
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Samb

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Re: Guaging Interest again
« Reply #50 on: May 07, 2009, 12:55:57 AM »
But it has such love, which is the problem. When you take a class where people love the fluff but hate the mechanics you get a bigger outrage than mediocre fluff and worse mechanics.
*points to the Divine Mind* The man has a point.
The fluff in Divine mind is part of the reason CPsi is so hated.  Psionic character that relies on a god to provide its class features is the antithesis of the self reliance that makes people fall in love with psionics.  I personally like CPsi, but I would have to agree with its detractors on this point.  Divine Mind is a class that should just be forgotten.