Author Topic: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster  (Read 84701 times)

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jameswilliamogle

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #160 on: May 18, 2009, 12:12:07 AM »
Source - Invoke Magic?

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #161 on: May 18, 2009, 12:33:01 AM »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Suzerain

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #162 on: May 18, 2009, 01:57:48 AM »
It only allows casting of 4th level spells or lower iirc, but that's enough to get out of the AMF in an emergency.

ReaderOfPosts

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #163 on: May 18, 2009, 02:45:06 AM »

Levithix

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #164 on: May 18, 2009, 03:17:59 AM »
I'm of the impression that the stone hat would kill the wizard when it grows

also, you could be any charismatic level 20 character and do this without casting a single spell or using any magic items of your own
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 03:52:30 AM by Levithix »

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #165 on: May 18, 2009, 03:21:32 AM »
I'm of the impression that the stone hat would kill the wizard when it grows

Why, exactly?  If it's because it's expanding so quickly, he can just wear an even larger silly hat that has a big cotton base, so its expanded volume never even comes close to touching any portion of his body before settling.
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Levithix

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #166 on: May 18, 2009, 03:26:50 AM »
yea, that could work, you just have to make it a hat of disguise then so you don't look like you're wearing something so ridiculous :lol

ReaderOfPosts

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #167 on: May 18, 2009, 03:32:44 AM »
Or you know, make it a cylinder. The giant adamantine fez.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #168 on: May 18, 2009, 03:38:04 AM »
Oh if we're busting out the full casters like psions, I definitely think we can take down the wizard. I just don't think a non-caster (or non-manifester, whatever, basically same thing) can. However, James' Barbinder could probably take out most wizards, just maybe not an ultra-paranoid one. I think Mindblank stops his killer combo, but it also arguably keeps the wizard from using a few of his potent abilities, like Foresight, which could potentially open up other vulnerabilities.

As for the big shrunken "hat", just make it a burka. That way, as soon as it starts expanding, it touches the ground and no longer touches the wizard. ;)
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

ErhnamDJ

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #169 on: May 18, 2009, 03:45:48 AM »

  Okay, say we have this scenario:

  Wizard's out and about, wizarding it up, on a daily basis. He has all his Contingencies, his familiar, all his buffs and stuff (he's always a Dire Tortoise that looks like something else, immunities, etc).

  So, whatever.

  Every day, the wizard teleports to the same library in a planar metropolis to check out the new books. Knowing this, how does the non-caster defeat him?

  I think this is mostly pointless, though. It would be far more interesting to do it at different levels. Level five, ten, and fifteen maybe. All day Shapechange is....


ReaderOfPosts

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #170 on: May 18, 2009, 03:54:43 AM »
Another problem is that anyone can pull off a full caster combo with enough ranks in UMD and some magic items. It's just not particularly playable usually because of cost.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #171 on: May 18, 2009, 03:59:10 AM »
yea, that could work, you just have to make it a hat of disguise then so you don't look like you're wearing something so ridiculous :lol

Hey, a large conical hat with a different kind of base is perfectly legitimate wizzard attire.
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ErhnamDJ

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #172 on: May 18, 2009, 04:15:47 AM »
Another problem is that anyone can pull off a full caster combo with enough ranks in UMD and some magic items. It's just not particularly playable usually because of cost.

How do you UMD up Craft Contingent? Or all day Shapechange?

UMD is a piss-poor substitute for the Real and Ultimate power of the wizard.

Levithix

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #173 on: May 18, 2009, 04:38:11 AM »
you just take leadership and improved cohort to get the highest level wizard you can get with all wizard followers, with your cohort doing the same (you can get a cohort of every level from 17 down assuming they all come with NPC wealth by level which you use to equip the higher ups with a cloak of charisma before they go recruiting)

have every one of them know sudden maximize and sudden empower (not a problem for a fifth level wizard to know three metamagic feats)

with that you get a grand total of 24 wizards under you who can cast level three maximized, empowered spells and one who can cast level nine spells ... see where this is going?

have your level 17 cohort mindrape ... somebody, Vecna only knows how many level one followers are in your army ... into loving said uber mage then proceed to love's pain him with every wizard who can, one round later he has taken 819 untyped damage that allows nothing short of an AMF to prevent in one round

if you want to be safe from celerity abuse allowing him to somehow know love's pain is coming, all of your mages can know celerity as well and use it after he does to have 24 love's pain's on either side of his celerity all you'd have to do to achieve this is provide metamagic rods of maximize and empower to your mage battalion and a few headbands of intellect so they can still cast it after taking int damage

 :lmao

Levithix

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #174 on: May 18, 2009, 04:39:22 AM »
that plan scared me ...

jameswilliamogle

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #175 on: May 18, 2009, 10:03:22 AM »
Another problem is that anyone can pull off a full caster combo with enough ranks in UMD and some magic items. It's just not particularly playable usually because of cost.

How do you UMD up Craft Contingent? Or all day Shapechange?

UMD is a piss-poor substitute for the Real and Ultimate power of the wizard.
Binder's can get Craft Contingent Spell.  All-day Shapechange is tougher, though (and the main reason I still used AMF).

ErhnamDJ

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #176 on: May 18, 2009, 02:04:28 PM »
Binder's can get Craft Contingent Spell.

Craft Contingent says: You can make contingent any spell that you know.

What spells does the Binder know?

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #177 on: May 18, 2009, 02:38:23 PM »
Binder's can get Craft Contingent Spell.

Craft Contingent says: You can make contingent any spell that you know.

What spells does the Binder know?
That's the way all crafting feats are worded that make things that store spells. Look at Craft Wand. It says basically the same thing. You can use items to contribute the spell required, or have someone else provide it, per the rest of the rules on magic item creation.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

ErhnamDJ

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #178 on: May 18, 2009, 03:32:48 PM »

So, hire another wizard to use the feat on the binder, so the binder can later cast the wizard spells.

How is this preferable to just playing a wizard?

The Lurker

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #179 on: May 18, 2009, 03:37:48 PM »
That's a weaksauce wizard build...

Something more like this:
Fire elf Transmutation Domain combat Wizard 5 (1st and third sub levels) with a hummingbird/ Incantatrix 3/ Mindbender 1/ Incantatrix +7/ Archmage 2(SLA on a ninth level spell and arcane reach) / Loremaster 2 (bonus feat and lore)

Notable feats:
Mindsight, extraordinary spell aim, persist spell, arcane disciple(war)

Notable items: Cunning weapon, nothing else really matters because buffs supersede the equipment on most stuff.

Initiative:
0ish dex, 5 nerveskitter, 2 eager, 5 warning, 8 familiar, 4 sign (via a wand), 4 improved initiative (screw you scribe scroll!) 2 belt of battle = +30

He has a pretty solid chance to win initiative, but he's a dire tortoise with celerity (and a wand of favor of the martyr in his shapechanged familiar's hands) so he just goes first against anyone that isn't also a dire tortoise with celerity *and* a higher initiative (I might have missed a few boosters, but being killed by your own build is kinda a win anyways).

Once he wins initiative (he doesn't get surprised because he's an incantatrix with permanancied spells like detect invis and all day long arcane sight), he shifts into a combat form (pick one) and grapples his enemy to death* (extraordinary spell aim on antimagic field).

Yes, a grapple wizard.

Why?  Because that's how wizards with style kill their enemies.

*The grapple damage is going to be so obscene that it doesn't even matter what they can do the next round because about 500 points of damage will kill just about anyone at this level.

This is what the real challenge should be.  Kill the grapple wizard :D